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Post by Christine on Oct 24, 2017 9:36:34 GMT -5
www.cnn.com/videos/politics/2017/10/24/bob-corker-manu-raju-full-interview-nr.cnnI happened to get to watch this live several minutes ago. (And lots of lots of clips since then because... CNN.) It was very somber. Corker was so, well, "low energy" is how one of the commentators put it. And with that demeanor, he basically eviscerated Trump, imo. Of course, as I suppose everyone knows--and as Corker himself said in the interview--he's not running for re-election, so he's got the freedom to say what he thinks. But also, there was some sort of spat between Corker and Trump about Trump endorsing Corker's re-election, so there's the suggestion that Corker is pissed off and getting some payback. But if that's true, he's an incredible actor. Because in that interview, he didn't come across as angry, or spiteful, or vengeful. Quite the opposite, imo. Then again, that's the full extent of what I know about Corker. But I mean, you just don't see this in politics, right? Bush, Sasse, McCain speaking out have been new, too, but they were much more subtle than this. Other Congresspeople have not gone this far. This is new. Big. Yuge, even? More evidence of the possibility of a snowball effect? Or is it meaningless, because Corker's on the way out? Or is it irrelevant because anyone who criticizes Trump is seen as the enemy by his supporters, ergo, we're all doomed?
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Post by Amadan on Oct 24, 2017 10:55:58 GMT -5
I doubt there are many Republicans left who genuinely respect and support Trump. They all know what they're dealing with at this point. They've made a devil's bargain, and now it's just question of who will reach their limit and who won't. I predict we'll see a handful of hard defections, a lot more "soft" ones, and a lot more who really don't care as long as they stay in power.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 24, 2017 13:23:27 GMT -5
It's likely irrelevant to the faction of Trump supporters who like Trump precisely BECAUSE of his blustering, ugly style, and despise the Republican establishment represented by Corker, Bush, McCain, and Flake.
But I think it is likely that loyal Republicans and conservatives who respect those men, and/or who cringe at Trump's more egregious tweets, untruths, and behavior, are another matter. That's why I think it so very important they speak up. Their words will mean much more to those on the right than those of, say, Hillary Clinton, Elizabeth Warner, and Bernie Sanders.
I agree that Corker came across as one who was putting country over party and regretfully reporting his sober conclusions, not at all as a ranting, vengeful asshat.
I thought the other above-named gentlemen did a fine job, too. And for me, it has been a really inspiring thing lately to see all five of our ex-presidents join hands to talk about our country's shared values.
And yes, I agree with Amadan that among establishment Republican politicians, there are likely few still genuinely respecting and enthusiastically supporting Trump. Some will continue to grin and bear it, but I am expecting more defections and more criticisms coming from the right. It should be apparent to most of them by now that it is not just the left Trump aims to take down.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 24, 2017 15:04:11 GMT -5
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Post by Amadan on Oct 24, 2017 15:59:43 GMT -5
No, this is the money quote:
Damn. That was a hell of a speech. I don't know much about Jeff Flake, but that's gotta sting.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 24, 2017 16:10:40 GMT -5
The whole damn thing was a money quote, IMO.
Heh. Sarah Huckabee Sanders said Flake's language was not fitting for the Senate floor. I wonder -- does she ever actually listen to her boss?
Flake is actually your basic midwestern cordial nice guy, as a rule. And he's a committed conservative. Which, of course, makes this all the more powerful.
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Post by mikey on Oct 24, 2017 16:59:38 GMT -5
The quotes that has been posted sounds like a (partial?) surrender of the GOP establishment. It'll be interesting to see where the survivors of this political civil war end up.
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Post by Christine on Oct 24, 2017 17:22:52 GMT -5
The whole damn thing was a money quote, IMO. Heh. Sarah Huckabee Sanders said Flake's language was not fitting for the Senate floor. I wonder -- does she ever actually listen to her boss? Beat me to it. I heard her say that and fell out of my chair, dead. I am so, so pleased with Flake's stand. Bravo.
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Post by Optimus on Oct 24, 2017 17:29:38 GMT -5
Full disclosure: Corker is my former mayor and state senator, so I'm quite familiar with his politics. He's a classic, dyed-in-the-wool, "big business" Republican, so I'd urge caution in thinking that he has seen the light of "country over party." In fact, I think he's looking to eventually lead the party.
He's been taking digs at Trump with increasing frequency and intensity over the past 6 months (it gets more press in TN than nationally). The last time he did this (about two weeks ago), when he said that the White House was "adult day care," I commented on a news story that I suspected that he would say something again soon, and that it would be an even more vicious attack against Trump, because he announced last month that he won't be running for re-election to the Senate, and I'm convinced that he's positioning himself to primary against Trump in 2019/2020. He's always come across to me as having Presidential aspirations (even when he was a somewhat shitty mayor), and the political tea leaves have been telling me these past few months that he's gearing up for a POTUS run.
Granted, I don't disagree with anything he's said about Trump, and I think Trump is one of the most destructive political atrocities ever foisted on the American public, but Corker's insults are absolutely strategic (in my opinion), motivated more by a likely impending presidential run than purely by "country over king" patriotism.
I could be wrong, of course, but I'm absolutely expecting him to continue taking digs at Trump, eventually leading up to an announcement that he's formed a PAC (or some sort of "exploratory" or fundraising something-or-other) and then eventually an announcement that he's going to challenge Trump in the next primaries.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 24, 2017 17:38:55 GMT -5
I would not be at all surprised to see Corker primary Trump in 2020.
Another Flake money quote -- really, it was QUITE a speech:
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Post by Deleted on Oct 24, 2017 22:35:23 GMT -5
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Post by robeiae on Oct 25, 2017 7:39:30 GMT -5
I'm disappointed that Flake is retiring. Can't say I blame him, though.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 25, 2017 9:21:49 GMT -5
I'm disappointed that Flake is retiring. Can't say I blame him, though. I'm sorry, too -- he'll likely be replaced with Kelli Ward or some similar horror. At the same time, it's clear he's doing it to be an unfettered voice opposing Trump and Trumpism in his party. And judging from the last couple of days, he, Corker, McCain, and I hope others, are going to be issuing some serious fireworks. We know the alt-righters will cheer the departure of Flake, et al. as a victory. But I remain confident that the alt-right Trump branch of the Republican party is not large enough to win major elections on its own -- it needs the old-school party loyalists, the hope-for-the-besters, the oh-he'll-pivot-after-the-election-ers. So the question is, will those latter folks follow Trump/Bannon or will Flake and Corker give them pause?
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Post by Amadan on Oct 25, 2017 10:12:33 GMT -5
Well, it's one thing to say "Never Trump" - a lot of Republicans are already there.
But if "Never Trump" means "Let Democrats win"? If Jeff Flake had it to do over again, and he could either support Trump again or let Clinton win the Presidency, would he choose Clinton over Trump?
I think most Republicans, as much as they may hate Trump and what he's doing to their party and the country, still hate the idea of losing more.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 25, 2017 10:56:19 GMT -5
Well, it's one thing to say "Never Trump" - a lot of Republicans are already there. But if "Never Trump" means "Let Democrats win"? If Jeff Flake had it to do over again, and he could either support Trump again or let Clinton win the Presidency, would he choose Clinton over Trump? I think most Republicans, as much as they may hate Trump and what he's doing to their party and the country, still hate the idea of losing more. You are depressing me, you know.
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