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Post by robeiae on Dec 21, 2017 18:09:33 GMT -5
How is this working out? IMO, not well. Lol. You're comparing a few weeks of outrage--mostly from raging anti-Semites--to over 60 years of failure to resolve the situation? Israel in in control of the territory where it claims to be sovereign. That remains the primary test, which most everyone seems to recognize as long as we're not talking about Israel. I don't disagree. But it's not as nearly as obnoxious as the resolution that was voted on, that is yet another acknowledgement that anti-Semitism is a-okay, is a valid world view whose proponents need to be respected (except of course when they're acting out in Europe or the US; then they can be condemned). Well, like your failed East Berlin argument, you're making incorrect assumptions. For instance, imo our failure to support Chechen independence was a major error. And as far as I'm concerned, the Saudis should have been third on the list following 9-11, after Afghanistan and Pakistan.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 21, 2017 18:19:21 GMT -5
I thought of making a reference to your Failed Beauty Queen Argument in my last post, but decided it sounded too much like Trump.
We will not agree on this. And we'll have to see how much fall-out there ultimately is - time will tell. I shall just observe there are far more people on my side of this argument than on yours and c.e.'s, and they are not all anti-Semites, Muslims, or even liberals.
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Post by celawson on Dec 21, 2017 18:29:22 GMT -5
The U.N. has been anti-Semitic for years. And I, for one, am extremely glad that Trump has taken this stand, if only for the public display of support for an ally which is the sole democracy in the Middle East, which has a solid human rights record and offers freedoms to its citizens unheard of in most of the Middle East, which has extended the fruits of its democracy to Jews and Arabs alike (jobs, education, health care, posts in the government) which has offered peace numerous times, which has been unfairly targeted financially (BDS) physically (terrorist attacks) politically (see numerous anti-Israel U.N. resolutions, see attempts around the globe to delegitimize Israel including the current effort to tell Israel that it cannot name its own capital ), and has had existential threats from numerous bad players.
We will see how this plays out. But frankly, the bottom line for me is we did the right thing here, and I have to give credit to Trump for having the balls to do this and kudos to our U.N. Ambassador Nikki Haley.
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Post by robeiae on Dec 21, 2017 18:30:46 GMT -5
I thought of making a reference to your Failed Beauty Queen Argument in my last post, but decided it sounded too much like Trump. I wish you would, because no one seems to have an answer in that regard, a reason why the point of view of raging anti-Semites should be treated as legitimate, as something that needs to be respected and dealt with "diplomatically." I know that most of the people on your side are not, in fact, anti-Semites. I just don't grok why they are willing to coddle such people(anti-Semites). Well, I take that back. I think I grok it, as I've explained: it's a continuation of a "white man's burden" style of diplomacy. I just don't understand why they can't get over themselves in this regard.
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Post by poetinahat on Dec 21, 2017 18:54:03 GMT -5
I can get behind supporting a stance because one believes it's right.
I cannot get behind threatening other nations if they don't vote our way.
[eta: And aren't the Arabic peoples Semites too?]
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Post by Deleted on Dec 21, 2017 20:37:49 GMT -5
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Post by robeiae on Dec 23, 2017 9:31:38 GMT -5
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