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Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2018 18:25:15 GMT -5
www.nytimes.com/2018/01/24/us/politics/trump-mueller.htmlWell. I think he should speak under oath. But gotta say, I don't think this is going to go well for him. The trouble is, I honest to god think Trump cannot help but misstate things (to put it kindly). Speaking with accuracy and precision, without exaggerating, going off into wild tangents, bragging, etc. etc. -- under the very best of circumstances, he's not good at this. And I don't think we have the best of circumstances here -- I'm pretty confident, from the lengths he and his administration have gone over this last year to throttle and discredit this investigation, that he has SOMETHING he wants to hide. And here's the thing -- we all remember the Starr investigation. Bill Clinton was nabbed for fibbing about a consensual blowjob, not for any of the stuff that investigation initially sought to uncover. On the other hand, I'm pretty sure that even if Trump devoured a live baby on camera on the White House lawn, the Congress and Senate would do nothing about it. That said, 2018 looms.
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Post by poetinahat on Jan 24, 2018 23:35:56 GMT -5
I'm not sure his being under oath would make any difference. I just don't get the impression that he's capable of overriding his compulsion to say what fits his narrative.
I do get the impression that he doesn't really think he's lying, even when he is - or that, well, the necessity of winning overrides any imperative to be truthful. I don't think it's even a hard choice for him.
Even when he's caught red-handed, it's not his fault because, well, someone else has done far worse.
So, I think he would very easily lie under oath -- and pass a lie detector test while he does it.
This is nothing to do with party politics; it's what I've seen of him all along. He's just not a creature for whom honesty has any value.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2018 8:38:01 GMT -5
I agree -- and that might work for him if there were no such thing as objective truth and no one else was allowed to bring forth evidence of it. As it is, I don't see any way the man won't perjure himself a hundred times over -- quite possibly while believing much of that time that he isn't.
Unfortunately, I believe the game by many of his aides and sycophants has been to coddle him in order to soothe his ego, and at this point, he's deeply entrenched in a number of false views -- e.g., that he really won the popular vote and had the yuuugest crowd ever.
I understand Ty Cobb has been trying to walk this back. It will be interesting to see how that works out.
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Post by Vince524 on Jan 25, 2018 11:18:36 GMT -5
Trump may be willing to do that because he honestly thinks he did nothing wrong. Which isn't to say he didn't. Or he's just so convinced he can talk around it. Who the hell knows with him.
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Post by prozyan on Jan 25, 2018 11:41:07 GMT -5
And here's the thing -- we all remember the Starr investigation. Bill Clinton was nabbed for fibbing about a consensual blowjob, not for any of the stuff that investigation initially sought to uncover. I don't think there is really a lot to the whole Russian collusion angle. Its just too hard to prove anything and all current evidence points to maybe something inappropriate (engaging in diplomatic talks while the President Elect) but not illegal. As for influencing the election I think that is a no go unless they can show actual voter suppression or actual hacking of voter machines or the like. In other words, I don't think propaganda is going to cut it. I think the best bet is the obstruction of justice charge at this point. And I don't have a lot of faith in that. Bottom line, I think if anything comes out against Trump from this investigation, it will be something that wasn't an original reason for the investigation. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2018 12:11:17 GMT -5
Oh, I think there's obstruction in spades. And I think his business affairs are a vast sea of horrors that he's anxious to cover up.
As far as collusion goes -- quite frankly, I do think his campaign was improperly cooperating with Russian agents. (And I think it's beyond question that the Russians were trying to interfere in the election.) But here's what I also think: that many in his campaign may have been completely oblivious to the fact that, hello, that's not OK -- Don Jr. in particular is dumb as a bag of headless hammers, IMO. That does not make it OK. But I do think, amazing as it is, that they genuinely thought it was normal for a presidential candidate to get hacked dirt on their opponent by promising political favors. Seriously, I do.
So I cannot, at all, agree that there's nothing to the investigation into collusion. I think the reason for it has been and will be amply born out.
But what I also think is that whatever it uncovers, a Republican-controlled House and Senate will do nothing. Nothing. Even if Mueller were to uncover video of Trump raping nuns and roasting them alive. Nothing. Because that's just how partisan our country has become.
ETA:
I think it's all going to depend on what happens in 2018. If Republicans retain control of Congress, nothing will happen, though there's a fair shot the heat will lead to Trump stepping down. (I mean, he clearly hates the actual job of president and the scrutiny and criticism it inevitably brings.) If the Dems gain power over both houses, and I think there's an increasingly good chance of that, it will likely be another story. They'll bring considerably more heat on Trump, even if they can't get enough support to impeach him (I think then it will depend on just what comes to light between now and then), they'll be far more successful in pushing a resignation.
In my view, the Trump stuff is far, far, far, far, far, far, far worse than anything with Bill Clinton (and likely to be far worse than it currently looks), and indeed, I am betting it's a good bit worse than Nixon. That doesn't mean he gets impeached, of course, because that's all politics. But as far as egregious behavior goes, as far as what should happen if this were a less partisan country...
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