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Post by Deleted on Jan 31, 2018 12:49:27 GMT -5
Basically, I can't even. I am swamped today, but eventually I'll swing back and go into everything I hated or had yuuuge problems with or thought was a bigly misrepresentation. I'll also admit I had to read a transcript because I can't possibly listen to the guy talk for more than an hour without punching walls. (Taking aside the content, his voice and mannerisms irk the fuck out of me.) Meanwhile, just for fun, let's see if I can guess roughly where the regulars in our political threads fall on this. Y'all tell me if I got it wrong: -- celawson thought it was a great speech, and that the media and Democrats and NeverTrump Republicans are being really unfair to Trump. -- mikey thought it was an okay speech, and certainly no worse than speeches by past presidents, and we need to give the guy more of a chance. -- robeaie and prozyan thought it was not a good speech, though certainly not as bad as some people are making it out to be, and that SOTU addresses aren't very important and everyone will forget about it in two days anyway. -- Don thought it was a bad speech, but that all such speeches are terrible because the government _______________. -- Vince thought it was a bad speech though not as bad as it could have been, given Trump, and is shaking his head, saying "jeez, three more years of this?" --nighttimer, Christine, Angie, Amadan, Opty, Haggis, Markesq., poetinahat, maxinquaye, and I all kept yelling at every sentence, and pretty much want to punch a fucking wall (if we haven't already done so). So. how far off am I?  |
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Post by Vince524 on Jan 31, 2018 12:56:43 GMT -5
Vincent thought I've got deadlines to meet, kids to deal with, dishes to do, and a whole host of other personal issues to deal with between my family issues, my extended family issues and foster kid issues that I didn't bother to watch.
Having said that, it was better than I expected. No, I've got no idea what he said, but if he didn't show up and start humping the teleprompter while tweeting throughout the speech and screaming out covfefe while making fun of the person translating into sign language, then it exceeded what I would come to expect of him.
I'm assuming that didn't happen or I would have heard of it. Right?
I've heard some complaints against the dems, but I haven't read enough to decide if they're justified or not.
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Post by mikey on Jan 31, 2018 13:09:08 GMT -5
I think you need to add a poll
Did you watch or read or in any way was curious about said speech?
Yes
No
Mark me down for a no.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 31, 2018 13:18:54 GMT -5
I'm giggling a little because I briefly considered putting both of you down as "yeah, I didn't watch." To be honest, I think it's mostly political geeks who pay attention to the SOTU. I assume most of my friends in RL didn't watch, for example. Of course, here in a political forum, we're going to have an outsized proportion of people who either watched live or did/will read a transcript or watch the video later.
ETA:
gimme a sec -- I'll add a very quick poll before I dive back into work (I'm typing between bites of my sandwich).
okay, done. I deliberately didn't leave an option for "I haven't watched or read it yet, but intend to do so." If inclined, just come back and reply to the poll when you do. You can select up to five options.
ETA:
The Melania / Pelosi thing is a joke, obviously, especially given I didn't watch the speech live, but last night about a zillion people on twitter posted multiple shots of both of them looking mighty unhappy at various points of the speech. Apparently, this was a thing.
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Post by prozyan on Jan 31, 2018 13:43:37 GMT -5
-- robeaie and prozyan thought it was not a good speech, though certainly not as bad as some people are making it out to be, and that SOTU addresses aren't very important and everyone will forget about it in two days anyway.I actually thought it was a pretty good speech. The bolded part is 100% accurate though. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 31, 2018 13:59:41 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Jan 31, 2018 14:06:19 GMT -5
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Post by haggis on Jan 31, 2018 14:38:10 GMT -5
Didn't watch and doubt I'll read the transcript. I'll surely learn about these new lies as I read the news.
Oh, and since it's Trump, I do want to set myself on fire too.
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Post by Don on Jan 31, 2018 14:45:23 GMT -5
"-- Don thought it was a bad speech, but that all such speeches are terrible because the government _______________."
I marked c).
I read the transcript instead of watching because I didn't want to waste that much time being lied to.
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Post by prozyan on Jan 31, 2018 16:50:29 GMT -5
Just some quick points without getting too much in depth:
1. MS-13 is a problem. Whether Trump exaggerated how many members have been sent to prison or deported doesn't really matter. Acknowledging the problem and addressing it is a good thing.
2. Major mistake (as all politicians make) in linking the opioid crisis to actual drug dealers. Dealers are now and always have been a symptom of the problem. They are a response to a demand, not a cause. The opioid crisis has a very banal beginning: the fact that pain is a thing in the healthcare field now. Like an actual condition, very close to an actual diagnosis. Thus is it treated and often treated aggressively. This creates otherwise "normal" people with an addiction to prescription painkillers with no adequate follow up support through the healthcare field.
3. ISIS is being defeated. While I have said before Trump does not have a lot to do with this it is no surprise he takes credit for it. Anyone who is President at this time would.
4. The stock market is roaring. Again, not a lot to do with Trump, but nor is it surprising he takes credit for it. Anyone who is President at this time would.
5. The tax cuts. The biggest knock is that they will expire for the middle class while they will not for the wealthy. If I thought this would remain until 2027, I'd be more concerned. But whoever comes along after Trump is going to do something with taxes that half the people will love and half the people will hate. Raise or cut. Pretty much the pattern since time immemorial. The fact is the corporate tax cut DID generate some wage increases and bonuses. None of this is permanent, but we live in an instant gratification society. People will take their $1k bonus and not think about 10 years down the road. I think this will resonate with the general population more than many believe.
As for the Democratic response....I found it rather flimsy. I won't go into it, but it always gives me a chuckle when a young man from one of the most privileged and powerful families in the history of the nation tells us how shameful the income gap is.
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Post by poetinahat on Jan 31, 2018 19:21:15 GMT -5
You would have been right about me, Cass - except that (a) I haven't watched an SoU in years, and (b) I found Trump to be unbearable in the Eighties, and he's only gotten worse, so I avoid actually witnessing him if I can manage it. His values and his morals - such as they are - are almost completely opposite to mine. Politics don't even come into it.
I do try to set aside my personal revulsion for him, but I have only seen one thing involving him that I thought "well, good for him" or even "that's neutral". And that was the photo-op with the Teacher of the Year, holding his fan.
I get that there are some good things happening now - like the stock market rising, and a drop in black unemployment. But if Trump takes credit for them, I'd like to know a bit about what he's actually done to bring about those changes. (And I accept that he's no different from any president in taking credit for cyclical events that occur on his watch.)
I also get that a lot of America is sick of getting lied to, or - worse - ignored by Democrats, except on the campaign trail, and even then only maybe. And I really doubt that the Democratic Party will have learned anything from this. But even the GOP abhorred Trump, right up until he won. Now, they defend him with fire. They're worse than those goddamn reindeer who shunned Rudolph until he got the lead gig with Santa - then they loved him. Screw them.
The entire position of the Trump movement seems to be "We'll do anything the liberals hate". I would love to be wrong about that; I voted for Reagan, and I voted for Perot - hence I never voted for Bill Clinton.
But for fuck's sake, I don't think I could even invent a character more ill-suited to the Presidency than Donald Trump.
Maybe that's exactly why he's the President we were always going to get.
ETA: There is one thing I like about Trump, at least in comparison to other politicians: his lack of principle, and his venality, aren't hidden. They're front and center, in full view. He's a wolf in wolf's clothing, and in that respect, he's the most honest politician ever.
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Post by michaelw on Jan 31, 2018 20:45:03 GMT -5
His values and his morals - such as they are - are almost completely opposite to mine. Politics don't even come into it. I feel the same way. If Trump had different politics, I might listen to him and think, "Yeah, he's got a point." But he's such an unsavory person, that I don't see how I could bring myself to support him, regardless. |
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Post by michaelw on Jan 31, 2018 20:47:52 GMT -5
Also... great thread title
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Post by Deleted on Jan 31, 2018 20:59:12 GMT -5
Michael, I just realized I didn't put you in there -- but I had you mentally in the last category, setting fire to yourself with piah, Haggis and I, et al.  (I put my efforts in my OP primarily in thinking through who likely fell somewhere short of wanting to set fire to themselves. I think I got that part right, by and large.) Ha, poet! I identify exactly the same instance you do of my giving two thumbs up to Trump -- that picture with the teacher and his fan. One of his aides tried to get the guy to put it away, and Trump told him to go for it. That was a moment where I genuinely liked him. I shall never forget it, because it has not recurred since, alas. But it was a good moment and the picture is pretty awesome. |
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Post by poetinahat on Feb 1, 2018 1:14:13 GMT -5
His values and his morals - such as they are - are almost completely opposite to mine. Politics don't even come into it. I feel the same way. If Trump had different politics, I might listen to him and think, "Yeah, he's got a point." But he's such an unsavory person, that I don't see how I could bring myself to support him, regardless. I chuckle to myself that, over here, the word 'savoury' is in common use to classify food that, I guess, involves herbs and spices and salt, as opposed to sugar. Hence, one category of 'unsavory' would be 'sweet'. From now on, I will think to myself that Donald Trump is a sweet guy. |
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(I put my efforts in my OP primarily in thinking through who likely fell somewhere short of wanting to set fire to themselves. I think I got that part right, by and large.)