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Post by Deleted on Mar 2, 2018 9:37:44 GMT -5
In another thread, we've covered that Trump reversed himself 180 degrees on gun control twice in 24 hours.
But this "oh, fuck, I can't keep up with the chaos" thread seems like a good place to note that he sent stocks crashing by championing (idiotic) tariffs and proclaiming that "trade wars are easy to win."
ETA:
Yes, yes, I agree that the president isn't the sole factor determining the stock market or anything like it, and that the market is gonna market. OK, OK, OK. But there seem to be a lot of experts opining that this particular drop WAS triggered in large part by Trump embracing a disastrous idea. Whether it was or wasn't, the idea is awful, and trade wars are not "easy to win," and this is just another example of his irresponsible spouting off on important issues without regard for consequences.
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Post by prozyan on Mar 2, 2018 10:36:24 GMT -5
The market reaction is ridiculously overblown.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 2, 2018 10:51:02 GMT -5
And then there's this...
ETA:
I cannot help but feel that a certain circle is profiting bigly -- and the rest of us are being played.
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Post by prozyan on Mar 2, 2018 11:01:39 GMT -5
The market reaction is ridiculously overblown. I'm sure you're right, actually. Market is gonna market. And it was a bit unfair of me to focus on that (which I kinda admitted) -- though, that said, I do think investors are feeling a bit "WTF" right now, and likely wouldn't be, or not to that degree, if we didn't have a president coming out with crazy pronouncements that would suck for the economy. I know I feel skittish. But what, IMO, is not overblown is that those tariffs are a bad idea, and is statement that trade wars are good and easy to win is just ludicrous. ETA: I mean, as a person with a stock portfolio, I'm normally a "ride it out" kind of person, making adjustments periodically. Indeed, I still am. But when you have a president who comes out of the blue with yuuuuuge pronouncements that, if implemented, would sucker punch businesses (or artificially inflate them or otherwise have large, unwise, possibly unintended consequences), one is tempted to say "yeah, this gamble is getting just a wee bit too risky and maybe it's time to step out for a bit." I really have just no freaking idea what this guy is gonna propose next, and what Congress is gonna let him get away with. My confidence in our system of checks and balances has eroded considerably during this last year. Market is going to market and honestly 2017 was so unbelievably good investors are looking for any signs of volatility to sell off. A kind of things are going TOO good syndrome. Anyway, I wouldn't read a lot into what Icahn does. Even if he did have some insider info (and who at that level of the game doesn't?) that trade makes sense. I see it more of a future construction trade rather than a steel trade. There has been a feeling for awhile that global construction projects were going to pick up in 2018, but that sentiment has largely disappeared. You can see this in the weakness of Caterpillar and like stocks. As for the tariffs being bad....a lot of analysts are saying that but I am not convinced. Steel is a problem has China has flooded our market with cheap and honestly sub-par steel. This has been brewing for quite some time, dating back to the Obama administration. So I don't buy this is Trump flying off the cuff. My fear wasn't the tariffs, I was afraid he was going to declare the steel from China a threat to national security and act from that position. His statement that trade wars are easy to win.....Well, that is just plain stupid. That said, this won't kick off a trade war anyway.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 2, 2018 12:38:59 GMT -5
and just to note -- a number of conservatives whom I think are actually smart (that's not the same thing as "I agree wholeheartedly with all their ideas", btw) think the tariff is a bad thing. Again, sure, they could be wrong. But this isn't just liberal handwringing. see, e.g., As a matter of fact, it seems to be mostly conservative handwringing over this one! see, e.g., www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2018/3/2/17070792/republican-congress-trump-steel-tariffs?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=twitter&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+vox%2FFEFh+%28Vox+-++All%29So this would be, I guess, an example of where I side with the conservatives. I don't think as a general thing, protectionist tariffs are usually a great idea. I stand ready to be convinced I'm wrong on this particular example or that it would serve some convincing public good -- I admit that I'm not an expert here at all. But I read some convincing articles on how this would bring up the price of consumer goods far more than it would save jobs. I'll dig them up later. But even if you convince me that the tariffs are fine, what I don't think you'll convince me of is that Trump carefully thought it out and consulted with experts before he spewed it out. ETA: There's also this to ponder: and this:
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Post by prozyan on Mar 2, 2018 12:44:01 GMT -5
Trump had nothing to do with this other than to rubber stamp it. This is Wilbur Ross all the way.
Of note is how Ross made his fortune....buying bankrupt steel companies and selling them for huge profit once operations had improved.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 2, 2018 12:50:26 GMT -5
Trump had nothing to do with this other than to rubber stamp it. This is Wilbur Ross all the way. Of note is how Ross made his fortune....buying bankrupt steel companies and selling them for huge profit once operations had improved. Well, yes -- clearly he reacts to the latest bee buzzing in his ear. But he's president. He's the one with the power. He has no business blindly rubber-stamping things that have a yyyuuuuuuuuge effect on our economy and foreign relations.
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Post by prozyan on Mar 2, 2018 13:00:01 GMT -5
Shit, he has no business being President....
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Post by Deleted on Mar 2, 2018 16:21:48 GMT -5
ha!
on the tariffs front, this won the internet today, IMO:
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Post by Deleted on Mar 2, 2018 20:37:45 GMT -5
Food for though on the tariffs front...
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Post by Deleted on Mar 2, 2018 22:04:00 GMT -5
huh. Well, I'm not sure if it's fake news or a coincidence, but it must be one of the two, and in any event, is clearly not hinky anyway.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 3, 2018 9:45:55 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Mar 6, 2018 17:57:20 GMT -5
Heh. This would be funny except it really isn't:
But I'm sure Trump's economic advisors...oh, wait...
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Post by michaelw on Mar 6, 2018 19:17:21 GMT -5
Supposedly, Cohn had considered stepping down after seeing Trump's response to Charlottesville.
But I guess steel tariffs were just a bridge too far.
LOL.
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Post by Don on Mar 7, 2018 7:46:34 GMT -5
Since this seems to be the thread about tariffs, I'd like to post the most awesome headline evar!!!
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