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Post by Vince524 on Jan 28, 2019 13:05:24 GMT -5
Sandmann didn't do any mocking, yet he's become the face of racism, and disrespect for standing there with a smirk at a man that walked up to him, chanted and beat a drum in his face. Here's an early article by Rolling Stone. www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/nathan-phillips-maga-students-781861/The BI's taunting had little to do with the MAGA hats (But, of course lets mention that because then it's okay to taunt teens because of their hats.) The above paragraph is false. So Phillips claims to be trying to lower tensions. By walking into the group of teens. Chanting. And beating a drum in their faces. That's an interesting tactic to try and deescalate. That's a quote from Phillips. The teens are the beasts, and the Black Israelites were the prey. According to him. So a bunch of Black Israelites verbally attacking a group of teens, not news worthy. A Native America, seeing that, inserting himself into the situation, siding with the Black Israelites, telling the world that they're racists, and the beasts, that's okay too. blavity.com/native-american-activist-nathan-phillips-speaks-out-after-maga-hat-teens-harassed-him-and-othersThe boys weren't attacking. They reacted to what Phillips did. Could they have handled it better? Sure. If you say a bunch of insulting crap to me, and in response, I call you retarded, that's bad, right? Using the R word in that context is wrong. But it doesn't mean you get a pass for calling me whatever you were calling me. Yes, the incident itself is a nothing burger. The reaction to it, celebrities who called for them to be named, people calling them racists Nick Sandmann's picture now being the fact of white supremacy with people asking have you ever seen a more punchable face? That's the story. The idea that the ones most in the wrong here were the kids, is exasperating. Cass posted a question, if these were black kids, would the reaction be the same. I posited no, that many people defending them would condemn them and vice versa. If this had been the case, where black teens were minding their own business and BI's or even West Baptist Boro had said horrible stuff and they did nothing wrong, they didn't start a fight, and then someone inserted themselves into the situation, an old white person, singing something in a language they didn't understand, got in their face and beat a drum, and then called the kids predators, I think we'd see a very different reaction from those people still seeing this as the kids were the bad guys. I don't think anyone handled themselves perfectly, but I'm not into hearing that Sandmann should be tarred and feathered for a smirk, and all the while nobody sees anything wrong with what Phillips did, or what he said.
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Post by celawson on Jan 28, 2019 13:10:28 GMT -5
As a friend of mine just reminded me, this is not a hill worth dying on. Fuck it. I have nothing left to say that I haven't said six times already. Keep your opinion, whatever it may be, and take joy in it. I'd post on one of the topics I think ARE hills worth dying on, but topics like that get no traction anymore. It's only stuff like this that goes on for pages. These are interesting comments, especially considering you've posted more than anyone else on this thread.
Let's talk about other stuff! I'd love to. That's why I stopped here in this thread.
Let's see -- we've got Andrew Cuomo, supposed Roman Catholic, not only promoting evil abortion legislation in New York which allows abortion up to minutes before birth, but frickin lighting up pink lights on tall buildings to celebrate it. Yeah. If that ain't some moral confusion, I don't know what is.
Or...Alexandria Ocasio Cortez' apocalyptic pronouncements on climate change.
Or...how big the clown car is going to be for the Dem's in 2020
Or Trump's cave on the wall negotiations just when Dems were starting to get squirmy.
Or the most recent social media pile-on which involves Tom Brokaw.
or ANYTHING ELSE except this tired story.
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Post by markesq on Jan 28, 2019 15:24:51 GMT -5
Let's talk about other stuff! I'd love to. That's why I stopped here in this thread.
Let's see -- we've got Andrew Cuomo, supposed Roman Catholic, not only promoting evil abortion legislation in New York which allows abortion up to minutes before birth, but frickin lighting up pink lights on tall buildings to celebrate it. Yeah. If that ain't some moral confusion, I don't know what is.
Or...Alexandria Ocasio Cortez' apocalyptic pronouncements on climate change.
Or...how big the clown car is going to be for the Dem's in 2020
Or Trump's cave on the wall negotiations just when Dems were starting to get squirmy.
Or the most recent social media pile-on which involves Tom Brokaw.
or ANYTHING ELSE except this tired story.
You should probably pick one and start a new topic. So go for it, I'll chip in with an opinion!
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Post by Vince524 on Jan 28, 2019 17:40:19 GMT -5
This may appear strange as I’m copying and pasting from my phone, but there’s a new statement from the school. www.scribd.com/document/398238407/Message-From-the-Most-Reverend-Roger-J-Foys“We are sorry that this situation has caused such disruption in the lives of so many. We apologize to anyone who has been offended in any way by either of our statements which were made with good will based on the information we had,” Foys wrote in the letter. “We should not have allowed ourselves to be bullied and pressured into making a statement prematurely, and we take full responsibility for it.” Foys wrote that he wanted to “especially apologize” to Nicholas Sandmann, who was featured most prominently in the video. “I especially apologize to Nicholas Sandmann and his family as well as to all CovCath families who have felt abandoned during this ordeal,” Foys wrote. “Nicholas unfortunately has become the face of these allegations based on video clips. This is not fair. It is not just.”
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Post by Christine on Jan 28, 2019 20:58:36 GMT -5
Here's an early article by Rolling Stone. www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/nathan-phillips-maga-students-781861/The BI's taunting had little to do with the MAGA hats (But, of course lets mention that because then it's okay to taunt teens because of their hats.) The above paragraph is false. So Phillips claims to be trying to lower tensions. By walking into the group of teens. Chanting. And beating a drum in their faces. That's an interesting tactic to try and deescalate. That's a quote from Phillips. The teens are the beasts, and the Black Israelites were the prey. According to him. Just a side note, since no one here or anywhere else in my particular circle has called the BI victims, which is a good thing.... still, I'm irritated by how some people are ignoring the Black Israelites rhetoric toward LGBTQ. In the video footage one of them said something seriously offensive, something along the lines of death to LGBT iirc, and there was a collective groan from the teens. Someone called out, "They're still human!" which I suppose was a nice effort, Catholic-wise. I was somewhat relieved that these young people, MAGA hats notwithstanding, evidently rejected that particular extremist bigotry. And to reiterate, that's a SIDE NOTE, not an absolution from their otherwise idiotic, immature behavior.
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Post by nighttimer on Jan 29, 2019 12:21:45 GMT -5
Sandmann didn't do any mocking, yet he's become the face of racism, and disrespect for standing there with a smirk at a man that walked up to him, chanted and beat a drum in his face. Here's an early article by Rolling Stone. www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/nathan-phillips-maga-students-781861/The BI's taunting had little to do with the MAGA hats (But, of course lets mention that because then it's okay to taunt teens because of their hats.) The above paragraph is false. So Phillips claims to be trying to lower tensions. By walking into the group of teens. Chanting. And beating a drum in their faces. That's an interesting tactic to try and deescalate. That's a quote from Phillips. The teens are the beasts, and the Black Israelites were the prey. According to him. So a bunch of Black Israelites verbally attacking a group of teens, not news worthy. A Native America, seeing that, inserting himself into the situation, siding with the Black Israelites, telling the world that they're racists, and the beasts, that's okay too. blavity.com/native-american-activist-nathan-phillips-speaks-out-after-maga-hat-teens-harassed-him-and-othersThe boys weren't attacking. They reacted to what Phillips did. Could they have handled it better? Sure. If you say a bunch of insulting crap to me, and in response, I call you retarded, that's bad, right? Using the R word in that context is wrong. But it doesn't mean you get a pass for calling me whatever you were calling me. Yes, the incident itself is a nothing burger. The reaction to it, celebrities who called for them to be named, people calling them racists Nick Sandmann's picture now being the fact of white supremacy with people asking have you ever seen a more punchable face? That's the story. The idea that the ones most in the wrong here were the kids, is exasperating. Cass posted a question, if these were black kids, would the reaction be the same. I posited no, that many people defending them would condemn them and vice versa. If this had been the case, where black teens were minding their own business and BI's or even West Baptist Boro had said horrible stuff and they did nothing wrong, they didn't start a fight, and then someone inserted themselves into the situation, an old white person, singing something in a language they didn't understand, got in their face and beat a drum, and then called the kids predators, I think we'd see a very different reaction from those people still seeing this as the kids were the bad guys. I don't think anyone handled themselves perfectly, but I'm not into hearing that Sandmann should be tarred and feathered for a smirk, and all the while nobody sees anything wrong with what Phillips did, or what he said. You should probably check another source if you really want to keep ass-covering for the Covington Catholic kids. That same Rolling Stone article isn't nearly as favorable to them as you believe it is.
So yeah, that happened. Great link, Vince! If you're arguing this side of the debate, that is.
As a friend of mine just reminded me, this is not a hill worth dying on. Fuck it. I have nothing left to say that I haven't said six times already. Keep your opinion, whatever it may be, and take joy in it. I'd post on one of the topics I think ARE hills worth dying on, but topics like that get no traction anymore. It's only stuff like this that goes on for pages. These are interesting comments, especially considering you've posted more than anyone else on this thread.
Let's talk about other stuff! I'd love to. That's why I stopped here in this thread.
Let's see -- we've got Andrew Cuomo, supposed Roman Catholic, not only promoting evil abortion legislation in New York which allows abortion up to minutes before birth, but frickin lighting up pink lights on tall buildings to celebrate it. Yeah. If that ain't some moral confusion, I don't know what is.
Or...Alexandria Ocasio Cortez' apocalyptic pronouncements on climate change.
Or...how big the clown car is going to be for the Dem's in 2020
Or Trump's cave on the wall negotiations just when Dems were starting to get squirmy.
Or the most recent social media pile-on which involves Tom Brokaw.
or ANYTHING ELSE except this tired story.
Oh, so you're not concerned about them po' White boys no mo? Suffering a bit of compassion fatigue there are we? How sad.
We could talk about Trump's boy, Roger "The Ratfucker" Stone being indicted by Robert Mueller.
We could talk about how Trump got dog-walked by Nancy Pelosi.
We could talk about how the Dems didn't cave, but the Repubs and President Pussygrabber sure did.
We could talk about how right-wingers talking about Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez all the time only raises her profile, not lowers it.
We could talk about a lot of things. Many of them you don't wanna talk about. So we won't.
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Post by Vince524 on Jan 29, 2019 12:41:38 GMT -5
I was linking specifically to that article because of how it mis-characterized what happened.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 29, 2019 12:44:05 GMT -5
nighttimer , I started an "other stuff" thread this morning to discuss the burning topics ce wanted to address. thecollinegate.boards.net/thread/1424/which-address-stuff(I've kind of given up on starting threads on the sort of topics you suggest, and on the Mueller investigation, indictments, Trump world scandals, etc. because by and large, they just got crickets.)
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Post by nighttimer on Jan 29, 2019 14:19:58 GMT -5
I was linking specifically to that article because of how it mis-characterized what happened. Really? HOW? In absence of anything but sketchy You Tube videos and websites which cater to our predetermined political biases and blindspots, no one who wasn't there has The Definitive Answer to what went down when the MAGA Catholics met the Black Hebrew Israelites and the Native American got between them. Even those who were there like Phillips and Sandmann have vastly different recollections of the incident, so who's got it right and who's got it wrong? Who's telling the gospel truth and who's lying like a dog on a rug?
I sure don't know and you sure don't know and nobody here knows. Because we weren't there and all those who were aren't the most reliable witnesses! None of us are operating from a position of first-hand knowledge, but we've all got plenty of second-hand opinions.
Still not as good as facts.
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Post by celawson on Jan 29, 2019 14:41:20 GMT -5
Hi, nighttimer! Yes, we could talk about any of those things. I wouldn't mind. And yes, Trump DID get dog-walked by Nancy Pelosi. She's a tough old lady, and she's very shrewd. And I'm disappointed in Trump. However, we shouldn't ignore the fact that Nancy spent more money blocking Trump's wall than he's asking for in the first place. So there's that. I will admit I threw "clown car" in there, because I remember hearing it so much when the GOP had a lot of folks throwing their hats into the ring. Sorry, I couldn't resist. I don't mind talking about any of those things. I did tire of the Covington stuff after we started going in circles, and I spent a lot of time tracking down that video for Cassandra. So I stopped posting for a while. But I will join in any of those you suggested.
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Post by Vince524 on Jan 29, 2019 14:56:10 GMT -5
I was linking specifically to that article because of how it mis-characterized what happened. Really? HOW? In absence of anything but sketchy You Tube videos and websites which cater to our predetermined political biases and blindspots, no one who wasn't there has The Definitive Answer to what went down when the MAGA Catholics met the Black Hebrew Israelites and the Native American got between them. Even those who were there like Phillips and Sandmann have vastly different recollections of the incident, so who's got it right and who's got it wrong? Who's telling the gospel truth and who's lying like a dog on a rug?
I sure don't know and you sure don't know and nobody here knows. Because we weren't there and all those who were aren't the most reliable witnesses! None of us are operating from a position of first-hand knowledge, but we've all got plenty of second-hand opinions.
Still not as good as facts.
Option 1: The original narrative was that the kids just confronted an Elder who was beating a drum for no reason, which isn't true. Option 2: Phillips honestly thought the way to defuse a situation with teens having racist and homophobic slurs at them (That at some point he said the kids should listen to the BI's because they had a message worth hearing, I'll have to look for that quote) was to walk into their crowd, get in their faces and chant while beating a drum. And the Sandmann's reaction was to stand there and smirk. But the media saw fault in his actions alone. (And the other kids.) Option 3: We don't know what happened, yet so many people are happy to call Sandmann and his classmates racists, demand harsh punishments, threaten theirlives, etc,. and still find no fault anywhere else. (I'm not saying people on this board say that, but hell, if this entire fiasco had started with let's wait and let the facts come out before we decide to label these kids racists, this threat wouldn't be 11 pages long. It might not be a thread.) The actual incident is, as you've said, a nothingburger because in the grand scheme of things, nothing major happened. The story is in the rush to condemnation and refusal to see the the teens weren't the worst actors on that stage. I've got no issue with someone wanted to give them a talking to on the tomahawk chops. (Although most of the time I thought they were mimicking the drumming and simply getting into it, but whatever) But if that talk to them isn't accompanied by a lecture to Phillips who doesn't care that he's cause actual harm to these kids (Nick Sandmann the most since he's seen as the face of a racist group of privileged teens wearing MAGA hats, which even if the school drops this tomorrow, could affect him getting into some colleges cause his name is out there and they may decide they don't want him.) or the BI's that's where I have an issue.
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Post by markesq on Jan 31, 2019 11:15:46 GMT -5
Hi, nighttimer! Yes, we could talk about any of those things. I wouldn't mind. And yes, Trump DID get dog-walked by Nancy Pelosi. She's a tough old lady, and she's very shrewd. And I'm disappointed in Trump. However, we shouldn't ignore the fact that Nancy spent more money blocking Trump's wall than he's asking for in the first place. So there's that. Can you explain your reasoning for attaching the cost of the shut down on Nancy Pelosi? I mean, other than obvious partisan bias and a complete rejection of logic and fact....
Consider:
1. Trump was offered a deal before the shut down, one all parties agreed on. He refused and the shut down ensued. He was later offered the same deal, which he accepted, and the shut down ended.
2. The shut down was over ONE THING: a wall that only he thinks is necessary, and that he said Mexico would pay for. (You never seem to address that aspect, btw.)
3. He said before the shut down he would own it. His own words.
So, please, explain why this is on Nancy.
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Post by nighttimer on Jan 31, 2019 12:14:02 GMT -5
Hi, nighttimer! Yes, we could talk about any of those things. I wouldn't mind. And yes, Trump DID get dog-walked by Nancy Pelosi. She's a tough old lady, and she's very shrewd. And I'm disappointed in Trump. However, we shouldn't ignore the fact that Nancy spent more money blocking Trump's wall than he's asking for in the first place. So there's that. Following-up on Mark's questions on how Pelosi spent more money blocking Trump's wall than he's asking for, I'm not following you. The government shutdown cost the U.S. economy some $11 BILLION DOLLARS according to Forbes, and even with reopening, some $3 BILLION DOLLARS will never be made up.
Trump said he would close the government if he didn't get money for his wall. Pelosi told him "Hell no."
Trump said he'd proudly shut the government down and he wouldn't blame the Democrats. He did and then he blamed the Democrats.
Trump tanked the economy and fucked up the credit scores, mortgages, car payments and medical bills of thousands of federal workers who were held hostage to his demands for a wall.
Trump said he would never cave on his demand and the shutdown would last "months and maybe years" until Pelosi got up off the ransom money. Pelosi sneered back, "Motherfucker, what did I just say?"
Trump watched his crappy popularity numbers tank even harder. Republicans began squabbling among themselves on who was to blame for this shitshow. Trump just watched Faux News telling him to stay the course.
Trump tweeted on a Thursday he'd never cave. Friday he did exactly that. He got rolled like a joint.
And all he got from it is the same deal he'd turned down over a month ago. That's a real weak move from a bully who hates looking weak, but he got knocked da fuc out. By a Nasty Woman.
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Post by Vince524 on Feb 12, 2019 18:58:44 GMT -5
www.youtube.com/watch?v=lSkpPaiUF8s&feature=youtu.beA video put together by Nick Sandmann's lawyer. Yes, it's edited. It's more like a mini documentary. I understand the lawyer has sent letters to Phillips as well as some celebrities like Kathy Griffen. Not sure what's happening with that.
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Post by Vince524 on Feb 13, 2019 18:04:41 GMT -5
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