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Post by Optimus on May 15, 2020 13:27:08 GMT -5
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Post by robeiae on May 19, 2020 9:19:37 GMT -5
Personal coronavirus update:
I'm sitting in a Pasion del Cielo right now, enjoying my coffee and writing on the computer. Masks are required, tables are all10 feet apart. I'm the only customer there. Four or five people have come and gone since I got here; business is slow. But it is business. The two young women working are pretty fucking happy to be back at work. I've known them for a while now and we talked about the last couple of months. I was one of their last customers when they had to close, and now I'm one of their first customers to return. They have a pretty stoic view on all of this (matching mine, it would seem): life goes on; we do what we need to do, what we can do, to protect people, but life goes on.
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Post by robeiae on May 19, 2020 9:39:17 GMT -5
The nursing home issue is getting more play and Cuomo is getting pounded: nypost.com/2020/05/16/blame-governors-for-coronavirus-deaths-in-nursing-homes-goodwin/This is a politically effective angle for the right, particularly as a response to the cadre of DeSantis critics out there, who basically have no response, except the self-serving "this isn't the time for politics because people are dead," which of course they ignored fully when going after DeSantis. This all matters because Florida is supposedly in play for 2020, but I think DeSantis is now in the catbird's seat and Florida will end up firmly in Trump's column, barring any unexpected developments.* * And indeed, one can see the left almost hoping for something bad to happen in Florida. Look at the title of this piece: Florida throws open its doors — and holds its breath
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Post by robeiae on May 19, 2020 14:10:55 GMT -5
Too dumb for words:
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Post by robeiae on May 20, 2020 15:07:48 GMT -5
Sticking to Florida, because it seems that's ground zero for hoped-for bad news from mainstream journalists and the Left, a seemingly juicy story came out the other day: Woman who designed Florida's COVID-19 dashboard has been removed from her positionHow awesome is that, if you're one of the ghouls hoping for bad news from Florida? This story, from one source or another, was all over my FB feed yesterday. From the above piece: Holy shit! Florida is manipulating and hiding data--probably deaths--in order to allow a reopening! DeSantis is screwed! Unfortunately for the ghouls, this story is apparently not quite what it seems. Read this (ignore the headline): www.tampabay.com/news/health/2020/05/19/florida-health-department-officials-told-manager-to-delete-coronavirus-data-before-reassigning-her-emails-show/And read this (admittedly a right-leaning source, but facts are--ultimately--facts): tallahasseereports.com/2020/05/20/rebekah-jones-firing-is-the-covid-clickbait-the-media-dreams-of-but-its-all-fake/DeSantis--when asked about all of this today--kind of unloaded on Jones: www.nbc-2.com/story/42154963/governor-desantis-addresses-fired-doh-employee-shes-not-a-data-scientistETA: For the nitpickers, it also looks like she doesn't actually have a PHD, but was merely in a doctoral program (maybe she almost has one?). Oops. Well, that's not a good look, at all. Per the above piece at Tallahassee Reports, she does indeed have a criminal record, including an open case for harassment. As to all this stuff about her being the "architect" for the website, the source for that is a self-serving interview Jones gave to her alumni magazine: www.syracuse.edu/stories/rebekah-jones-covid-19-dashboard/Nothing wrong with a little bragging, but again it's clear that she didn't build the website "from scratch," as she claims, anymore than I built this website from scratch. She was a part of team--maybe even the leader of the team--who used pre-fab components, just like the people at Johns Hopkins did (and fyi, I've had the Florida site bookmarked for months; it's a good site). Yet another example of the shoddy journalism that continues to plague the 'net.
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Post by Optimus on May 20, 2020 16:34:53 GMT -5
Nice.
Given the shady shit that's gone on with GA's reporting (including the absolute worst, most intentionally misleading data chart I've ever seen), I can understand why people would pounce on this story as "yet another example of X." Having said that, though, it seems most of the pitchforks are coming from the mouth-breathing leftist blue checks on Twitter, and not as much from actual media. There are a few reports out there, but I've seen more debunking the story than I've seen promoting it as if it's a smoking gun. That's just my experience thus far, though. Others' might be different depending on which media sources they're exposed to.
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Post by robeiae on May 20, 2020 18:09:32 GMT -5
I can tell you that the Miami Herald and the Sun-Sentinel (Ft. Lauderdale's main paper) were all over the initial story and essentially took her at her word for every claim she made, obviously without bothering to fact check any of it.
But you're probably right: it's was the blue check mark crowd (on the left) who did the most sharing and promoting.
And the gist of what they were sharing was that Florida fired her for not being willing to hide data, ostensibly on case numbers and/or deaths. Yet, that wasn't really the info in question at all.
One might still be inclined to argue that Florida's numbers are incomplete--there are other stories on that, to be sure--but that's hardly an issue limited to Florida. Given the processes here, there certainly some over-counting and under-counting in every State. The numbers are going to see a lot of corrections over time, imo. That said, ain't no way Florida has numbers anything close to those in NY, NJ, and so forth. And I have yet to see any of the people who predicted doom in Florida have the integrity to say they were (horribly) wrong.
And yeah, it's an issue that gets under my skin, because everyone I know down here--and this is in Miami--is doing what they should be doing. And I'm sick of the know-nothings in other parts of the country pointing to Florida as a big problem, since it fucking isn't. Florida has fewer deaths per million residents than 27 other States, despite having more seniors per capita than ever State except for Maine, and more seniors in total than every State except for California. Hell, when it comes to deaths, Florida has better numbers than a lot of countries, including Germany and Canada.
I don't think DeSantis necessarily needs to be lionized for the job he's done, but he certainly doesn't deserve to be pilloried.
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Post by Optimus on May 20, 2020 18:31:43 GMT -5
I still think you're putting a little too much faith in Florida's ostensibly "good" numbers. And, your claim that "Florida has better numbers than a lot of countries, including Germany and Canada" is specious, to put it mildly.
Florida has reported just under 47,000 cases total, with ZERO reported recoveries, and just over 2000 deaths. The fact that they've reported NO recoveries is reflective of shit data reporting, if not equally shitty data collection, which in my opinion renders those other stats rather suspect.
On the other hand, Canada has reported just over 80,000 cases total, with roughly 41,000 recoveries, and just over 6,000 deaths (many of those have been from bad outbreaks at retirement homes).
However, Canada has tested nearly 3 times as many people as Florida, at approximately 1,340,000 compared to Florida's relatively low 489,000. So, you're comparing apples to oranges.
I would caution against bragging too much until Florida gets its shit together in terms of its testing, data collection, and data reporting because right now they're doing worse in all three than the countries you claim it's got "better numbers" than.
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Post by robeiae on May 20, 2020 21:58:10 GMT -5
Florida has tested 770,000, actually. Seems to me that's in line with Canada, figuring for population. And I disagree on the recovery numbers, because I don't think they're all that meaningful. But okay, Florida is far from perfect.
Still, ultimately what matters is deaths though, no? The goal is to minimize deaths, above all else, whether it's by preventing exposure, or by caring for the sick. Florida has fewer deaths per capita than--again--27 other States, even with a much larger vulnerable population. And it compares favorably to Germany and Canada, when it comes to deaths. That still strikes me as good news. Does that mean Florida is "better" than Canada and/or Germany? No, of course not. But if you look at Florida, California, and Texas--three of the four most populous States--what you see are death numbers that just aren't outrageous, as compared to most all of Europe. It's the Northeast for the most part that's making the US look like shit, even though all of the outrage crowd are focused on pretty much everywhere else in the US, and seem fairly certain that the US--through Trump--is doing it wrong, while Europe is apparently doing it right, or at least doing the best that they can.
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Post by Optimus on May 20, 2020 22:58:29 GMT -5
Florida has tested 770,000, actually. Seems to me that's in line with Canada, figuring for population. And I disagree on the recovery numbers, because I don't think they're all that meaningful. But okay, Florida is far from perfect. Still, ultimately what matters is deaths though, no? The goal is to minimize deaths, above all else, whether it's by preventing exposure, or by caring for the sick. Florida has fewer deaths per capita than--again--27 other States, even with a much larger vulnerable population. And it compares favorably to Germany and Canada, when it comes to deaths. That still strikes me as good news. Does that mean Florida is "better" than Canada and/or Germany? No, of course not. But if you look at Florida, California, and Texas--three of the four most populous States--what you see are death numbers that just aren't outrageous, as compared to most all of Europe. It's the Northeast for the most part that's making the US look like shit, even though all of the outrage crowd are focused on pretty much everywhere else in the US, and seem fairly certain that the US--through Trump--is doing it wrong, while Europe is apparently doing it right, or at least doing the best that they can. Sorry, seems I was looking at older numbers. But the numbers Florida is reporting don't match what the CDC is reporting for Florida. That disparity, along with the lack of any recovery numbers at all is indicative of incomplete, if not completely sloppy, collection and reporting. And, it's not just in Florida. There are several states that are having these issues and it speaks to how feckless and inept those overbloated bureaucracies are. My main point (as it usually is for these issues) is that we need better data before drawing firm conclusions and patting people on the back. It seems you feel that Florida and DeSantis have been unfairly attacked in the press. And perhaps they have been to a certain degree. But, there's also a noticeable hint of "hometown refereeing" in the way you interpret and judge the news/data involving Florida. The result of understandable defensiveness for your home state? Probably, but that doesn't absolve your perspective here from being just a wee bit biased in a "they've done nothing wrong" direction. All I'm saying is, while Florida (and a few other states) likely isn't doing nearly as terrible a job as some in the media have tried to claim, they're farts also don't smell nearly as jasmine sweet as you seem to be trying to convince us that they do.
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Post by robeiae on May 21, 2020 7:23:10 GMT -5
*shrug*I'm sure this is some hometownism on part, but that's probably more a product of so many people--including ones I actually know--posting and sharing bullshit stories about Florida and it's "catastrophic" (or the like) failures, a product of #floridamorons trending while NY (the State and the city) are being given a pass and/or glorified for the unbelievably poor job they've done, thus far.* Though there is some pushback coming on this, finally. Here's another one: Where Does Ron DeSantis Go to Get His Apology? As to Florida's reporting, explain this to me, of you can: covidtracking.com/dataI'm not saying it's the Word of God (though the Kaiser Family Foundation is using it as a source), but it appears that some professionals have a very different view, with regard to Florida's reporting. Perhaps my hometownism is being balanced a bit by your ability to criticize data?** I'm mean, you're saying that Florida's reporting is maybe "completely sloppy," right? So whose reporting is so much better, then? And what are you basing that on? How does that jibe with the above analysis (for those who don't want to click through, Florida's "data quality grade" on the Covid Tracking Project is A+; California's is B; New York's is A; Texas' is B)? But I'm okay with Florida's farts smelling like farts, I really am. Just some pretense of fairness when reporting on them would be nice, for a change. Frankly, I think FLorida is still being punished for the 2000 election... * And in that regard, I actually don't think Cuomo needs to be vilified (deBlasio, maybe), but he's doesn't need to be given camera time to brag about himself and whine about everyone else, as if he is somehow a hero in all this (his dimly lit clown of a brother is partly to blame, to be sure). His screw-ups need to be seen as screw-ups, as a means of learning what not to do. ** You know what I'm trying to say here, right? I couldn't think of a way to say it without being snarky or insulting. I'm referencing you zeroing in on specific data/methodology and pulling it apart, which I actually enjoy.
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Post by robeiae on May 21, 2020 7:55:01 GMT -5
Side note: thanks for this back and forth, Optimus. I really needed it!
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Post by robeiae on May 21, 2020 8:39:02 GMT -5
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Post by Optimus on May 21, 2020 15:29:05 GMT -5
So whose reporting is so much better, then? Me thinking that Florida's data collection and reporting quality is suspect doesn't at all imply that I think anyone's really doing a great job of it (not in the US, anyway. Perhaps South Korea is near the top, but they also institute some rather Draconian measures to do so). I think the US response, as a whole, has been a huge clusterfuck. I'm not sure anyone's done a great job.
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Post by robeiae on May 21, 2020 18:59:12 GMT -5
Fair enough.
I think one of the problems with the US response here--which is always a problem whenever there is a multi-state emergency of any sort--is the level of independence States and cities enjoy, to the extent that there's no uniformity of pretty much anything, including reporting data of most every sort. Plus, States and cities relish their independence in one moment, then freak out and expect the Feds to jump in and solve everything the next.
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