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Post by Optimus on Jan 4, 2017 3:53:37 GMT -5
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Post by Amadan on Jan 4, 2017 11:20:04 GMT -5
I don't agree with term limits.
Yes, career senators and congressmen results in cronyism. But rotating them in and out creates another problem that I think is just as bad - it means they will all focus solely on short-term interests. "What can I get in my limited time here?" And the lobbyists and backers who own them now will simply adjust to that reality.
Between politicians who have long-term interests that might occasionally actually be beneficial to their constituents and the country, and politicians looking to grab what they can in a few years and who cares what happens after that, I prefer the former.
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Post by Optimus on Jan 4, 2017 15:32:17 GMT -5
It's a delicate balance, for sure. But unless grotesque gerrymandering (like what happened in 2011) can be curtailed and corrected, then term limits may be a viable alternative.
Many of the decisions made by lawmakers fuck us in the long term already, because they have a long-term ideological agenda. I don't think that overall agenda will change for each party if term-limits are put into place. However, fresher faces might be more willing to respond to quick societal changes than many of the dinosaurs we have in there now.
I doubt term limits will pass, but it's a fun thought experiment.
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Post by robeiae on Jan 5, 2017 9:19:41 GMT -5
We have too many professional politicians, imo. Term limits aren't enough. They need to be shot when they leave office, as well.
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Post by Amadan on Jan 5, 2017 11:28:46 GMT -5
Hahah. But seriously - this is one my pet peeves. Why is "professional politician" a bad thing? Okay, I know why it's a bad thing. But the alternative is "amateur politician."
Presumably, if we accept the necessity of politicians existing (if we don't, we need to talk about what alternate form of government we prefer), then we want them to actually be good at their jobs, right?
Which is all of a way of getting back to my original point - there are problems with entrenched, entitled politicians making a career in Washington, but I maintain there are potentially bigger problems with a wave of inexperienced short-term thinkers riding in every couple of years, disrupting whatever the last wave did.
If you operate on the Don theory of government that government is bad and anything that cripples it and renders it impotent to actually accomplish anything is good, that seems like a good way to do things.
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Post by robeiae on Jan 5, 2017 11:37:42 GMT -5
Being good at their jobs means being able to stay in office, more often than not by delivering pork. Seriously. Especially in the House. They have to start thinking about reelection almost immediately after they take office, especially these days with the way information flows.
Senators are in office for six years. Mutlti-term Senators are the anchor, as it were, to government not being overrun completely by rubes.
And having reasonable term limits wouldn't lead to waves of inexperienced short-timers, at all. Maybe three terms is too few for House members. But you know, it seems to me that after more than three terms, if a House member can't move up to the Senate, then they've peaked politically and really won't have anything more to offer, for the most part (there are exceptions, to be sure). Their primary goal becomes holding on to the power they have.
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Post by Christine on Jan 5, 2017 20:28:09 GMT -5
The solution is not automatic rotation. The solution is to get voters to pay attention, to care, and to vote.
No idea how to accomplish that though.
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Post by Don on Jan 5, 2017 22:08:29 GMT -5
The solution is not automatic rotation. The solution is to get voters to pay attention, to care, and to vote. No idea how to accomplish that though. Maybe pixie dust? Or a magic spell? The perfectly valid reasons that most voters will never be adequately informed have been explained over and over and over again. Bryan Caplan does a bang-up job here. Short version: "Voters are worse than ignorant; they are, in a word, irrational—and vote accordingly." Add in the high cost in time of being adequately informed. Mix in the opportunity to pick from severely limited options, each of which bundles positions on myriad issues, so you're guaranteed a heaping helping of the bad along with the good, and your vote is already hopelessly compromised. Now consider, just for the presidential election, the dozens of issues that were never even raised. The candidates spent most of their time dissing each other, playing identity politics to protect their base, and the rest making promises everybody knows they have no intention of keeping. And you expect voters to pay attention and care about the outcome? You expect them to make the effort to be adequately informed on dozens of issues so that they can make informed decisions on candidates from dog catcher to president, when most of what those candidates present for consumption is plainly smoke and mirrors? Srsly? It's never, ever going to happen. There will be unicorns flying across the sky in formation farting rainbows before that happens. Time to come up with a better plan for a functional society than "majority" rule.
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Post by Christine on Jan 6, 2017 4:54:43 GMT -5
Maybe you're right, Don. I've come to that conclusion before when in my most cynical frame of mind. Also, people generally suck and 95 percent of them are incompetent. (Also, I can't take them seriously when they purposely leave out all the vowels in the word "seriously.")
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Post by Don on Jan 6, 2017 5:51:49 GMT -5
Maybe you're right, Don . I've come to that conclusion before when in my most cynical frame of mind. Also, people generally suck and 95 percent of them are incompetent. (Also, I can't take them seriously when they purposely leave out all the vowels in the word "seriously.") It doesn't take any cynicism, simply a large dose of that "critical thinking" everyone's so fond of and so unwilling to apply to a "settled science" like politics. I think it's a good time for one of those silly memes, because it points out a serious logical disconnect between politics and free choice. If one is not competent to make one's own decisions, how is one competent to pick those who will make the decisions one is incompetent to make? And why in the world would anyone who considers themselves competent think it's a good idea to let the "95 percent of them" that are incompetent make woefully uninformed decisions that will take away your ability to make decisions yourself? That's not the way for society to move forward. Society always advances through the efforts of the 5% (or less) who are competent individuals. And that 5% is woefully underrepresented in the political class, and indeed, seen as thorns in the side of the political status quo, IMO. The whole system is designed to impede progress to the benefit of entrenched interests, not advance it.
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