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Post by celawson on May 8, 2017 20:40:56 GMT -5
There just seems to be some weirdness about this story. Two prominent and by accounts wonderful and compassionate doctors were found murdered in their luxury penthouse in Boston. One story here: www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/suspect-killing-boston-doctors-didnt-fire-cops-prosecutor-says-n756221another version here: www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-39847412This story started out vague and is only marginally less vague now. The weirdness, to me, comes from the following: 1) The accused only got 9 months in prison for his second bank robbery? 2) Why would a robber with a gun slit throats and write bloody messages on the wall? And have cut up photos of the victims at the scene??? 3) Why isn't any story saying what the messages on the wall are? Some are saying they were of "retribution". Huh??? 4) Now stories are saying there is no evidence the robber knew the victims. Yet "retribution"? 5) How would the robber first of all get into a luxury penthouse, then enter the victims' home? I think reports said you even needed a key for the elevator. 6) Is the accused's immigration status an important point that should have been clarified in the news reports?
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Post by robeiae on May 9, 2017 13:48:59 GMT -5
Well, I tell ya: I think one of these doctors is less-than-wonderful.
My theory #1--that actually fits what we know--is that one of the two doctors hired this guy to help off the other doctor, for one reason or another. And thinks went bad, maybe because of a change of heart, maybe because the guy decided he'd be at too much risk. See, one of the doctors could have let him in, then helped subdue and tie up the other, then let the guy tie him/her up, too. Maybe the guy was supposed to then kill the target, grab some stuff, and make it all look like a robbery gone bad, which the survivor could then corroborate. But maybe the guy then realized he could still get screwed over in all of this, so he killed the other one, as well.
My theory #2--similar to above, except both were targets of a jilted ex.
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Post by Vince524 on May 9, 2017 13:56:40 GMT -5
The butler did it.
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Post by nighttimer on May 9, 2017 16:02:19 GMT -5
There just seems to be some weirdness about this story. Two prominent and by accounts wonderful and compassionate doctors were found murdered in their luxury penthouse in Boston. One story here: www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/suspect-killing-boston-doctors-didnt-fire-cops-prosecutor-says-n756221another version here: www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-39847412This story started out vague and is only marginally less vague now. The weirdness, to me, comes from the following: 1) The accused only got 9 months in prison for his second bank robbery? 2) Why would a robber with a gun slit throats and write bloody messages on the wall? And have cut up photos of the victims at the scene??? 3) Why isn't any story saying what the messages on the wall are? Some are saying they were of "retribution". Huh??? 4) Now stories are saying there is no evidence the robber knew the victims. Yet "retribution"? 5) How would the robber first of all get into a luxury penthouse, then enter the victims' home? I think reports said you even needed a key for the elevator. 6) Is the accused's immigration status an important point that should have been clarified in the news reports? Well, I tell ya: I think one of these doctors is less-than-wonderful.
My theory #1--that actually fits what we know--is that one of the two doctors hired this guy to help off the other doctor, for one reason or another. And thinks went bad, maybe because of a change of heart, maybe because the guy decided he'd be at too much risk. See, one of the doctors could have let him in, then helped subdue and tie up the other, then let the guy tie him/her up, too. Maybe the guy was supposed to then kill the target, grab some stuff, and make it all look like a robbery gone bad, which the survivor could then corroborate. But maybe the guy then realized he could still get screwed over in all of this, so he killed the other one, as well.
My theory #2--similar to above, except both were targets of a jilted ex. Post#1 reeks of speculation, half-truths, inaccuracies and bad information. This is one of those horrible crimes that separates from the endless parade of horrible crimes by its many unusual aspects. Two successful physicians residing in a luxury and secure apartment aren't the typical victims of this sort of brutal murder. If this were two hookers cut up in a cheap motel room, if there were any news coverage at all it would be mentioned briefly ten minutes into the evening news or buried in the middle of the Metro section of the newspaper. But there's too much "weirdness" about this story and as more details have emerged, what seemed true 18 hours ago is untrue now. We now know Bampumim Teixeira, an immigrant from West Africa who had worked as a security guard at the building the victims resided, did not engage in a shootout with the police. He didn't even have a gun. What was Teixeira's immigration status? I don't have a definitive answer from a source I trust with confidence, but Heavy.com reports in their " 5 Fast Facts" ( and some of those "facts" no longer are) section: Heavy asked Jake Wark, spokesman for the Suffolk County District Attorney, about Teixeira’s immigration status, and he said, “From what I gather, Teixeira is a lawful permanent resident. Questions about immigration law and sanctions are best posed to federal authorities such as ICE, since state prosecutors have no jurisdiction or standing in those matters.” Shawn Neudauer, Public Affairs Officer for ICE, told Heavy in response to a series of questions about Teixeira’s immigration status: “ICE has no legal interest in this individual, though we will continue to monitor the matter in case his criminal charges change his legal disposition.”
Teixeria didn't know the doctors. The pure savagery of the slit throats and blood splattered apartment seems to shriek "this was personal," but it's equally likely Texiera simply a vicious killer who enjoys sadism. That's speculation on my part, but it beats the hell out the ridiculous pot-boiler TV plot with literally nothing behind it than robeiae either pulled it out of thin air or his ass. I get grief from some folks on this board who accuse me of saying I attempt to muzzle their opinions about journalism. Nothing could be further from the truth. What pisses me off when baseless opinions unsubstantiated by the facts--- because the facts often change from one point to the next in an ongoing murder investigation---are offered up as if a good guess means as much as a provable truth. Sometimes you simply must take an extra minute or two before you blurt out what you think instead of what is known. This is a fast-changing story and as the details come out they will unspool over time and very likely, by the time they do, we'll have moved on to newer and fresher tragedies to wildly speculate about. Vince's "joke" is too offensive in its obnoxious insensitively to merit a full response. What I will say is a tasteless and vulgar conspiracy theory cooked up by one person is matched by an equally tasteless and vulgar swipe at two beloved physicians by another in a lame attempt at "humor." There is so much wrong in all three of these posts. Too much wrong, and it undercuts this board's mission as promoting "thoughtful political discussion." The Colline Gate has vast potential, but until more effort and a lot more thought is put into responding to what is KNOWN instead of what is THOUGHT, it will be a painfully slow slog to ever reach it.
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Post by celawson on May 9, 2017 18:16:26 GMT -5
Thank you for the extra information, ohio.
I think this is a topic worth discussing because the "weirdness" I pointed out above possibly illustrates 1) sloppy reporting 2) biased reporting
and the question of immigration status is relevant to society, because if he is indeed illegal, then he should have been deported after his first felony, no? That's the sanctuary city question that bothers me. If he's not illegal, but is not yet a citizen, does a felony affect that? SHOULD it? Should TWO felonies affect that? I do think these are questions worthy of thought and discussion. And the fact that major news outlets didn't include his immigration status, when it seems to be a piece of info not that difficult to find out, raises the likelihood of biased reporting, IMO.
I think the sheer number of strange things reported, things that do not make for an explainable consistent story, merit some level of discussion which can be thoughtful.
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Post by Deleted on May 9, 2017 18:41:23 GMT -5
To be clear in advance, I'm not modslapping anyone in this thread. (Particularly not Rob, who could, like, ban me.) But I did want to comment, both as a mod and as a member. Rob/CGAdmin, as always, can speak for himself. Or ban me. Or ban us all. Whatevs.
As a mod:
I think the posts are all within bounds. The comments on the crime itself break no rules. Ohio criticized other members on the content of their posts, which is also within bounds. The one thing I think was rather unnecessary was the call-out and observation on the tenor of this entire board (as opposed to the content of the posts in the thread, which is fair enough). I'm not gonna modslap for that either, but I did want to say this:
I often dislike the content of posts (or parts of posts) on this board -- as I would on ANY board, since the whole world doesn't share my personality and opinions. I don't find every joke funny, and I don't find every point particularly thoughtful. That said, I have absolutely no intention, now or ever, of using mod power to repress such posts based on my opinions. I'm sure as hell not restraining people from joking -- I personally feel a little humor and lightheartedness leavens things a bit and make the board livelier and more fun. And I'm not going to make mod calls on whether or not jokes are funny unless they're ugly enough to amount to trolling (e.g., blatantly racist). Other members are welcome to say "I don't think that's funny!" Heck, I might even say that. But I won't mod slap for it unless they're trollish. Nor will I modslap the person saying "that's not funny!"
Nor will I demand that everyone make posts that I deem "thoughtful." I think we have plenty of thoughtful posts, and that the overall level here is in fact pretty damn thoughtful. And I frankly think that policing whether or not posts are "thoughtful" under my particular standards does way more harm to discourse than good. I'll rein in a derail if people are truly still trying to have a serious discussion and the derail is truly preventing it. I'll criticize content as a member, and pick apart what I think is not well-thought-out or wrong. But yeah, as a mod, I ain't policing what's "thoughtful" or what's "funny." Not now, not ever.
As a member:
To be honest, I also flinched a bit at the question about whether the accused's immigration status was relevant. (My answer is -- no. It's not. What's relevant is whether he committed a horrible crime, and his motives. I could not care less about his immigration status. And legally, for a crime this serious, I can't think it will matter to the punishment. A theft, maybe he serves out his sentence and gets deported, which is good with me. It might matter in a case like that, in terms of what happens to the criminal. But a brutal double murder -- he shouldn't see daylight again as a free man, whatever his immigration status.)
And I flinched a little bit at the joke and the speculation about the doctors' backgrounds, to be honest, simply because this was a really horrible murder. So far, I haven't seen any evidence that it was anything other than a horrible random murder that the victims didn't bring on themselves. Time will tell, I guess.
But I know c.e., Rob, and Vince are all good people, and that none of them think brutal murders are either trivial or hilarious.
As to how the murderer got the codes/keys to get in their place -- it's possible he or someone he knows did work for the couple or in the building at some point. Some friends of mine live in a building like that one, and they've given out keys and codes to workmen. I've warned them that maybe that isn't such a great idea, but they ignored me. It's also possible that a doorman or building super who has keys, and this guy swiped them. Or maybe there is a connection between the guy and the couple. Again, I guess time will tell.
Now. I will back away and wait for Rob to ban me/tell me to shut up/shrug. Feel free to comment on my comments.
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Post by nighttimer on May 9, 2017 23:24:13 GMT -5
Thank you for the extra information, ohio. I think this is a topic worth discussing because the "weirdness" I pointed out above possibly illustrates 1) sloppy reporting 2) biased reporting and the question of immigration status is relevant to society, because if he is indeed illegal, then he should have been deported after his first felony, no? That's the sanctuary city question that bothers me. If he's not illegal, but is not yet a citizen, does a felony affect that? SHOULD it? Should TWO felonies affect that? I do think these are questions worthy of thought and discussion. And the fact that major news outlets didn't include his immigration status, when it seems to be a piece of info not that difficult to find out, raises the likelihood of biased reporting, IMO. I think the sheer number of strange things reported, things that do not make for an explainable consistent story, merit some level of discussion which can be thoughtful. I'd enjoy that too, but I'm not finding a lot of thoughfulness in this discussion so far. In due time we will know what the status of Bampumim Teixeira is. There will be plenty of time to point fingers, cluck tongues, toss accusations and heads to lop off. But that time is not THIS TIME. You say Teixera's immigration status is relevelant and worthy of thought and discussion? Well, great. Give me something actual and factual about that immigration status and I'll be happy to think and discuss it with you and anyone else until the cows come home. But that time is not THIS TIME. I have no interest in rampant speculation, too many episodes of Law and Order conspiracy theories, and sick jokes as the violated corpses of Drs. Richard Field and Lina Bolanos are lying on a slab in the coroner's office. It is disrespectful and using them as political footballs to kick around is cruel in the extreme. If you want to use this tragedy as the pretext for your anti-immigrant fears, c.e.lawson, indulge yourself. But while you're snapping on the news media for their "sloppy reporting" and "biased reporting", wake up and try to acknowledge your own biased perspectives which converted a vicious double homicide into a tirade against immigrants and sanctuary cities and a sloppy insistence on making unsubstantied assumptions with a complete lack of facts. To be honest, I also flinched a bit at the question about whether the accused's immigration status was relevant. (My answer is -- no. It's not. What's relevant is whether he committed a horrible crime, and his motives. I could not care less about his immigration status. And legally, for a crime this serious, I can't think it will matter to the punishment. A theft, maybe he serves out his sentence and gets deported, which is good with me. It might matter in a case like that, in terms of what happens to the criminal. But a brutal double murder -- he shouldn't see daylight again as a free man, whatever his immigration status.) And I flinched a little bit at the joke and the speculation about the doctors' backgrounds, to be honest, simply because this was a really horrible murder. So far, I haven't seen any evidence that it was anything other than a horrible random murder that the victims didn't bring on themselves. Time will tell, I guess. But I know c.e., Rob, and Vince are all good people, and that none of them think brutal murders are either trivial or hilarious. It's not my place to question the goodness of celawson, Vince and robeiae. I question their posts in the wake of a senseless tragedy.
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Post by celawson on May 10, 2017 0:22:53 GMT -5
I will just clarify that the immigration status bothers me, because if the accused is not a citizen, and he's already committed the two felonies of bank robbery in the last few years, he should have been deported after those crimes. This is true for legal non-citizen residents. www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/grounds-deportability-when-legal-us-residents-can-be-removed.htmlAnd if he had been deported, it seems safe to say these murders would not have happened (if, in fact, the accused was the murderer). So yeah, some of us might not care about his immigration status, but if people had cared about following our immigration laws after he committed two felonies, those two doctors might not now be deceased.
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Post by robeiae on May 10, 2017 6:16:59 GMT -5
It's not my place to question the goodness of celawson, Vince and robeiae. I question their posts in the wake of a senseless tragedy. Question away. But cut it out with the meta-discussion of the board. It's not helpful. There are plenty of threads here with room for deeper discussion. And there is plenty of freedom for members--like you--to start threads oriented in that direction. This particular thread is about an isolated and horrific crime, but hardly a crime that is of a rare sort. Unfortunately, people are murdered in horrible ways pretty much every day. Celawson posted it and I freely speculated, based on the "weirdness" of the story. Sue me. Of course, part of the reason I did so was to give the thread a boost, with something more than "wow, that's horrible." It had been a day and no one had posted.
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Post by nighttimer on May 10, 2017 11:11:59 GMT -5
I will just clarify that the immigration status bothers me, because if the accused is not a citizen, and he's already committed the two felonies of bank robbery in the last few years, he should have been deported after those crimes. This is true for legal non-citizen residents. www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/grounds-deportability-when-legal-us-residents-can-be-removed.htmlAnd if he had been deported, it seems safe to say these murders would not have happened (if, in fact, the accused was the murderer). So yeah, some of us might not care about his immigration status, but if people had cared about following our immigration laws after he committed two felonies, those two doctors might not now be deceased. You want fake news? Make some up. At no time in any of your posts have you even once mentioned either the victims or the suspect by name. Therein lies your own biases and your own sloppiness. They aren't really people to you. The people involved here don't matter to you. Only the opportunity matters to exploit this senseless tragedy in order to flog your own obsession over illegal immigrants coming to America to commit murder. You have nothing, celawson. LESS than nothing here, but you're still on this reckless rampage to impose your own obsessions about killers coming into the country into this still-unfolding case. You're not going to allow a lack of details or facts to slow your roll, are you. Nah. Your response is "fuck the facts." It's not my place to question the goodness of celawson, Vince and robeiae. I question their posts in the wake of a senseless tragedy. Question away. But cut it out with the meta-discussion of the board. It's not helpful. There are plenty of threads here with room for deeper discussion. And there is plenty of freedom for members--like you--to start threads oriented in that direction. This particular thread is about an isolated and horrific crime, but hardly a crime that is of a rare sort. Unfortunately, people are murdered in horrible ways pretty much every day. Celawson posted it and I freely speculated, based on the "weirdness" of the story. Sue me. Of course, part of the reason I did so was to give the thread a boost, with something more than "wow, that's horrible." It had been a day and no one had posted. If your idea on how to give the thread a boost is to make shit up, the thread doesn't deserve a boost. Meta-discussions of the board may not be helpful but neither is dreaming up stuff to goose up hits on a thread. It's phony and misleading. It's a false argument and it's sophistic clickbait.
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Post by Deleted on May 10, 2017 11:51:11 GMT -5
The excessive nature of the brutality in this case could indicate it's personal. But not necessarily by any means. People have been brutalized before by random strangers in their homes for no reason except to inflict brutality. See., e.g., the Manson murders. Another example is a Columbia student who was raped, tortured, mutilated, then left for dead on a flaming futon mattress in her apartment by a random sadistic fuckhead sicko. (Miraculously, she woke up, managed to get free and was saved. But she's permanently scarred and injured. Besides carving her up, he made her swallow all kinds of pills and toxic substances which severely damaged her liver.) Some people, unfortunately, just want to hurt and kill people. The victim being wealthy or beautiful or otherwise privileged might make them that much more of a target, but really, it's about the perpetrator's desire to hurt and kill.
And as I discussed in my previous post, I can imagine a number of ways the guy could have gained entry.
We'll see, I guess.
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Post by robeiae on May 10, 2017 12:18:18 GMT -5
I will just clarify that the immigration status bothers me, because if the accused is not a citizen, and he's already committed the two felonies of bank robbery in the last few years, he should have been deported after those crimes. This is true for legal non-citizen residents. www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/grounds-deportability-when-legal-us-residents-can-be-removed.htmlAnd if he had been deported, it seems safe to say these murders would not have happened (if, in fact, the accused was the murderer). So yeah, some of us might not care about his immigration status, but if people had cared about following our immigration laws after he committed two felonies, those two doctors might not now be deceased. You want fake news? Make some up. At no time in any of your posts have you even once mentioned either the victims or the suspect by name. Therein lies your own biases and your own sloppiness. They aren't really people to you. The people involved here don't matter to you. Only the opportunity matters to exploit this senseless tragedy in order to flog your own obsession over illegal immigrants coming to America to commit murder. You have nothing, celawson. LESS than nothing here, but you're still on this reckless rampage to impose your own obsessions about killers coming into the country into this still-unfolding case. You're not going to allow a lack of details or facts to slow your roll, are you. Nah. Your response is "fuck the facts." Question away. But cut it out with the meta-discussion of the board. It's not helpful. There are plenty of threads here with room for deeper discussion. And there is plenty of freedom for members--like you--to start threads oriented in that direction. This particular thread is about an isolated and horrific crime, but hardly a crime that is of a rare sort. Unfortunately, people are murdered in horrible ways pretty much every day. Celawson posted it and I freely speculated, based on the "weirdness" of the story. Sue me. Of course, part of the reason I did so was to give the thread a boost, with something more than "wow, that's horrible." It had been a day and no one had posted. If your idea on how to give the thread a boost is to make shit up, the thread doesn't deserve a boost. Meta-discussions of the board may not be helpful but neither is dreaming up stuff to goose up hits on a thread. It's phony and misleading. It's a false argument and it's sophistic clickbait. Whatever. You obviously didn't enter this thread to discuss anything, you entered to just take potshots at the board and at members. And when it comes to adding to thoughtful discussion, you're pretty much at the bottom of the barrel, as evidenced by your most recent contribution in the "Trump fires Comey" thread. You're also always the first one to go from discussing a topic to talking about other members, the first one to criticize the board in general (like in this thread). And when you were temporarily banned, you immediately created a fake account to jump back in. Not a good sign. And while you sometimes add some great stuff to discussions, such benefits aren't really outweighing your costs imo. I can accept that you don't respect me. It's no big deal. This is just a messageboard in cyberspace, after all. But it is my board, at the end of the day. Seriously, I don't get why you even bother posting here, at all. So I'm just going to ban you for thirty days. If you want to come back after that, fine. But please don't bother if it's just to insult people.
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Post by celawson on May 10, 2017 12:21:20 GMT -5
Reports are saying the accused worked as a concierge at the building briefly more than a year ago. That could explain entry.
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Post by Deleted on May 10, 2017 12:24:57 GMT -5
Reports are saying the accused worked as a concierge at the building briefly more than a year ago. That could explain entry. Yep, totally. As a concierge, he could easily have gotten access to keys and codes. And if they haven't changed them since... And it may also explain why he chose the couple as a target. I don't mean that the victims somehow did something to bring on their murders. But the guy might have developed some kind of fixation about one or both of them.
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Post by nighttimer on Jun 21, 2017 22:23:13 GMT -5
And while you sometimes add some great stuff to discussions, such benefits aren't really outweighing your costs imo. I can accept that you don't respect me. It's no big deal. This is just a messageboard in cyberspace, after all. But it is my board, at the end of the day. Seriously, I don't get why you even bother posting here, at all. This is why. Someone else reached a different conclusion the benefits of the "great stuff" added to discussions far outweighed the supposed "costs" and that is the someone who invited me. That's why I bother posting here at all. Here's another reason and it should be obvious. I add a badly needed infusion of diversity. There is a dearth of African-American perspectives present here. Perhaps one day that won't be the case, and that will be a positive, but that day is not yet here. That doesn't make my contributions any more valued or meaningful than anyone else. But it is a different one and I think that's important. To the point about not respecting you, you're correct. It's not a big deal. Respect is a two-way street and it has to be given to be received. I can extend it, but if it's not going to be returned, why bother? Finally, I'm clear whose board this is and by whose sufferance I'm allowed to post here. I've never labored under any illusion I posses any special status. If or when I go too far and that sufferance ends, I'm certain you'll let me know in no uncertain terms and that will be the end of that. I'm clear on that point too.
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