Post by Deleted on Oct 18, 2017 12:23:51 GMT -5
You've all probably read about Trump's alleged words to the grieving pregnant widow of a fallen serviceman. Allegedly he said, in front a Congresswoman and other people, that Johnson "knew what he'd signed up for".
Trump denied this. The soldier's mother has now come forward saying that Trump did indeed say this, supporting the Congresswoman's story.
In fairness to Trump, it appears that he added that the loss hurt anyway, which many of the early accounts didn't include, and which, yes, if true, slightly soften it because it at least acknowledges that the family is in pain. I give him the benefit of the doubt on this one, and assume this is the way he put it rather than the more callous way. But yeah, I think I'm going to believe the Congresswoman and the dead soldier's mom over Trump on this one.
www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2017/10/18/totally-fabricated-trump-disputes-congresswomans-depiction-of-his-exchange-with-soldiers-widow/?utm_term=.b6471dc464f7
A couple of thoughts:
(1) Come on, we all know Trump. He's bad at this. That's why it's so easy to believe that he said something insensitive to a grieving widow. And now several people are verifying it. I believe he said it (with the addition of the loss hurting anyway).
(2) A few people are defending Trump on the "well, it's true! servicemen and women know they might die!". And well, yeah. They do. I came close to marrying a Marine Corp officer many years ago, and I can assert that he was ready and willing to die for his country if need be. BUT
(3) For fuck's sake, this is NOT what you -- ANYONE -- should say to the grieving. You don't say "better to die than to live like a vegetable." You don't say "well, he knew riding a motorcycle without a helmet was dangerous." And you don't say "he knew what he signed up for." No matter WHO you are. You say "I'm so sorry for your loss." "He/she was a hero." "He/she was a wonderful person." If you are both religious and you know it would be comforting, I give the nod to saying religious things. But NOTHING, ever, that indicates in the slightest that the death was just the way it goes sometimes. Not ever. No matter what you add to it.
(4) and for FUCK's sake, you do not say stuff like this when you are the FUCKING PRESIDENT, and it is your decisions (necessary ones, perhaps, but still your decisions) that led to the death. You do what previous presidents did -- if the grieving person is angry at you, you let them yell. You do not defend yourself. You hug them, if they want it. You show NOTHING but the deepest respect for them and the fallen soldier and compassion for their loss. This isn't about you, not for one minute.
On a related topic --
(5) You do not, as a president, defend your failure to immediately call fallen soldiers' families on the grounds that you were busy (cough playing golf cough) or that, FFS, prior presidents didn't call -- especially if that isn't true. I will allow you to apologize, say you intended to call but you were giving the family some breathing space before calling, and apologizing again if that was the wrong decision -- followed by compassionate and praiseful words about the deceased's service and death. That should be the absolute limit of the extent to which you defend yourself.
(6) And for damn sure, you don't go dragging the grieving General Kelly (who lost his son during Obama's administration) into it, telling people to "ask Kelly" if Obama called him. If General Kelly wanted to speak up himself, and say he didn't think Obama responded appropriately, that's one thing. But Trump had NO business, NONE, using General Kelly's loss for political purposes. Especially since it seems clear that Trump didn't bother to see what Obama did or didn't do for Kelly, or how Kelly felt about it.
ETA:
This probably falls under the category of "Trump may have meant well, but he needs to learn, stat, the proper, presidential way to handle soldiers' deaths." The grief and yes, sometimes rage, soldiers' families feel is something every president must contend with, and it's just so important that he does so in a way that is humble, respectful, reverent, and infinitely compassionate.
This is an area where defensiveness has no place, no matter what.
[Congresswoman] Wilson went on to say Trump “was almost like joking. He said, ‘Well, I guess you knew’ — something to the effect that ‘he knew what he was getting into when he signed up, but I guess it hurts anyway.’ You know, just matter-of-factly, that this is what happens, anyone who is signing up for military duty is signing up to die. That’s the way we interpreted it. It was horrible. It was insensitive. It was absolutely crazy, unnecessary. I was livid.”
“She was in tears. She was in tears. And she said, ‘He didn’t even remember his name.’”
“She was in tears. She was in tears. And she said, ‘He didn’t even remember his name.’”
The mother of a soldier killed in an ambush in Africa said Wednesday that President Trump “did disrespect my son” with remarks in a condolence telephone call.
Sgt. La David T. Johnson's mother, Cowanda Jones-Johnson, told The Washington Post that she was present during the call from the White House on Tuesday to Johnson's widow, Myeshia Johnson. Johnson's mother also stood by an account of the call from Rep. Frederica S. Wilson (D-Fla.) that Trump told Johnson's widow that her husband “must have known what he signed up for.”
Sgt. La David T. Johnson's mother, Cowanda Jones-Johnson, told The Washington Post that she was present during the call from the White House on Tuesday to Johnson's widow, Myeshia Johnson. Johnson's mother also stood by an account of the call from Rep. Frederica S. Wilson (D-Fla.) that Trump told Johnson's widow that her husband “must have known what he signed up for.”
In fairness to Trump, it appears that he added that the loss hurt anyway, which many of the early accounts didn't include, and which, yes, if true, slightly soften it because it at least acknowledges that the family is in pain. I give him the benefit of the doubt on this one, and assume this is the way he put it rather than the more callous way. But yeah, I think I'm going to believe the Congresswoman and the dead soldier's mom over Trump on this one.
www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2017/10/18/totally-fabricated-trump-disputes-congresswomans-depiction-of-his-exchange-with-soldiers-widow/?utm_term=.b6471dc464f7
A couple of thoughts:
(1) Come on, we all know Trump. He's bad at this. That's why it's so easy to believe that he said something insensitive to a grieving widow. And now several people are verifying it. I believe he said it (with the addition of the loss hurting anyway).
(2) A few people are defending Trump on the "well, it's true! servicemen and women know they might die!". And well, yeah. They do. I came close to marrying a Marine Corp officer many years ago, and I can assert that he was ready and willing to die for his country if need be. BUT
(3) For fuck's sake, this is NOT what you -- ANYONE -- should say to the grieving. You don't say "better to die than to live like a vegetable." You don't say "well, he knew riding a motorcycle without a helmet was dangerous." And you don't say "he knew what he signed up for." No matter WHO you are. You say "I'm so sorry for your loss." "He/she was a hero." "He/she was a wonderful person." If you are both religious and you know it would be comforting, I give the nod to saying religious things. But NOTHING, ever, that indicates in the slightest that the death was just the way it goes sometimes. Not ever. No matter what you add to it.
(4) and for FUCK's sake, you do not say stuff like this when you are the FUCKING PRESIDENT, and it is your decisions (necessary ones, perhaps, but still your decisions) that led to the death. You do what previous presidents did -- if the grieving person is angry at you, you let them yell. You do not defend yourself. You hug them, if they want it. You show NOTHING but the deepest respect for them and the fallen soldier and compassion for their loss. This isn't about you, not for one minute.
On a related topic --
(5) You do not, as a president, defend your failure to immediately call fallen soldiers' families on the grounds that you were busy (cough playing golf cough) or that, FFS, prior presidents didn't call -- especially if that isn't true. I will allow you to apologize, say you intended to call but you were giving the family some breathing space before calling, and apologizing again if that was the wrong decision -- followed by compassionate and praiseful words about the deceased's service and death. That should be the absolute limit of the extent to which you defend yourself.
(6) And for damn sure, you don't go dragging the grieving General Kelly (who lost his son during Obama's administration) into it, telling people to "ask Kelly" if Obama called him. If General Kelly wanted to speak up himself, and say he didn't think Obama responded appropriately, that's one thing. But Trump had NO business, NONE, using General Kelly's loss for political purposes. Especially since it seems clear that Trump didn't bother to see what Obama did or didn't do for Kelly, or how Kelly felt about it.
ETA:
This probably falls under the category of "Trump may have meant well, but he needs to learn, stat, the proper, presidential way to handle soldiers' deaths." The grief and yes, sometimes rage, soldiers' families feel is something every president must contend with, and it's just so important that he does so in a way that is humble, respectful, reverent, and infinitely compassionate.
This is an area where defensiveness has no place, no matter what.
