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Post by robeiae on Oct 25, 2017 8:25:47 GMT -5
...by the NAACP. The gist (my boldface): "Unsafe conditions"? What fresh hell is this? One of the incidents cited by the NAACP seems to be that of Tamika Mallory, a professional activist who was kicked off of a flight from Miami. More info here: heavy.com/news/2017/10/tamika-mallory-womens-march-american-airlines/My first impression is that she was treated poorly, though the last bit in the piece suggests there's a video that makes her look much worse. But allowing that she was treated poorly, that puts her in the company of plenty of other airline passengers from plenty of other airlines.
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Post by Amadan on Oct 25, 2017 11:34:35 GMT -5
PR stunt to extract groveling, some high-salaried sinecures (a new "Diversity Outreach" division or the like) and a big donation to the NAACP from American Airlines.
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Post by nighttimer on Oct 25, 2017 14:22:21 GMT -5
From the NAACP's letter:
American Airlines mistreatment of African-Americans extends to their own workers as well as their customers.
So yeah, if you want to be a cynic, maybe this is all a ploy by the NAACP to coerce American Airlines to reach for its wallet and give them some money to go away and leave them alone. Or maybe there is a genuine problem with systemic racial discrimination at American Airlines and to avoid being exposed to it the NAACP is doing its job in looking out for the rights of African-Americans. Crazy talk, I know, but not beyond the realm of possibility.  |
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Post by robeiae on Oct 25, 2017 15:02:15 GMT -5
Maybe. But the above letter to Loretta Lynch was sent in 2015 and concerned employees in Philly and DC, alone. So I don't think it's particularly germane to the NAACP's "travel advisory,"
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Post by Amadan on Oct 25, 2017 15:20:44 GMT -5
So yeah, if you want to be a cynic, maybe this is all a ploy by the NAACP to coerce American Airlines to reach for its wallet and give them some money to go away and leave them alone. Or maybe there is a genuine problem with systemic racial discrimination at American Airlines and to avoid being exposed to it the NAACP is doing its job in looking out for the rights of African-Americans. Crazy talk, I know, but not beyond the realm of possibility. Not beyond the realm of possibility, but what is the theory under which a major corporation is uniquely and pervasively racist to a greater degree than the rest of the industry? So is the airline industry in general really racist, or is there some shadow policy enacted by American Airlines to discriminate against black people because... American Airlines really hates black people? |
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Post by nighttimer on Oct 25, 2017 15:55:11 GMT -5
Maybe. But the above letter to Loretta Lynch was sent in 2015 and concerned employees in Philly and DC, alone. So I don't think it's particularly germane to the NAACP's "travel advisory," It's extremely germane if it points to a pattern of systemic and institutional racism at American Airlines. Yes, I know Ben Stein rejects the concept of institutional racism. Only a fool would say that and Stein is often extremely foolish.  So yeah, if you want to be a cynic, maybe this is all a ploy by the NAACP to coerce American Airlines to reach for its wallet and give them some money to go away and leave them alone. Or maybe there is a genuine problem with systemic racial discrimination at American Airlines and to avoid being exposed to it the NAACP is doing its job in looking out for the rights of African-Americans. Crazy talk, I know, but not beyond the realm of possibility. Not beyond the realm of possibility, but what is the theory under which a major corporation is uniquely and pervasively racist to a greater degree than the rest of the industry? So is the airline industry in general really racist, or is there some shadow policy enacted by American Airlines to discriminate against black people because... American Airlines really hates black people? I wouldn't know. What I do know are major corporations which own banks, hotels, and restaurant discriminate against Black people. What I do know is hospitals and insurance companies and doctors discriminate against Black people. What I do know is institutions of higher learning and public school systems discriminate against Black people. What I do know is Uber and AirBnB discriminate against Black people. What I do know is law enforcement and the judiciary and the penal system discriminate against Black people. What I do know is sports franchises and movie and TV studios and advertising agencies discriminate against Black people. What I do know is local, state and federal government and politicians on every level discriminate against Black people. I am not guessing this. I know this. What I do not know and do not care is if American Airlines "really hates Black people." I could give a shit whether they hate or love Black people. All I care about is does American Airlines treat its Black customers differently than its White ones and will the color of my skin determine the pleasantness of my flight? If they do, then I appreciate the warning from the NAACP so I can take my business to someone else who wants it. |
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Post by robeiae on Oct 25, 2017 16:14:59 GMT -5
It's extremely germane if it points to a pattern of systemic and institutional racism at American Airlines. Yes, I know Ben Stein rejects the concept of institutional racism. Only a fool would say that and Stein is often extremely foolish. Well, it can't point to much of anything, as given, since it's just a letter making accusations...again, from 2015. And again, it's specific to AA employees in two locations: Philly and DC. Sure, there can be institutional racism. And maybe it exists at AA, or at least at some of its hubs. But I don't think a handful of specific passengers claiming mistreatment by specific airline employees is pointing in that direction, particularly in light of the many other stories out there from people claiming mistreatment by airlines. The NAACP is suggesting--by my reading--that this handful of specific incidents reflects some sort of widespread pattern of racism from AA employees, when dealing with black passengers, thus warranting a "travel advisory" (which I assume is purposely parroting State Department language for dangerous regions). Yet, AA serves over half a million passengers per day. I suspect there are a lot of unhappy travelers on AA every single day, travelers who get bumped, get moved, have their flights cancelled, and so on. That seems like common sense. So I'm finding it kinda hard to believe the NAACP actually has any sort of point here. |
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Post by Christine on Oct 25, 2017 18:09:12 GMT -5
Not beyond the realm of possibility, but what is the theory under which a major corporation is uniquely and pervasively racist to a greater degree than the rest of the industry? Corporate leadership. Like with schools and police departments and the other businesses mentioned, it's not about "the industry" in question. It's about who's running things, and how. |
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Post by michaelw on Oct 25, 2017 19:04:24 GMT -5
PR stunt to extract groveling, some high-salaried sinecures (a new "Diversity Outreach" division or the like) and a big donation to the NAACP from American Airlines. Why should we think the purpose is to get a donation? Do they have a history of doing this sort of thing in order to solicit donations? |
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Post by Amadan on Oct 25, 2017 19:16:33 GMT -5
PR stunt to extract groveling, some high-salaried sinecures (a new "Diversity Outreach" division or the like) and a big donation to the NAACP from American Airlines. Why should we think the purpose is to get a donation? Do they have a history of doing this sort of thing in order to solicit donations? I am being cynical, but that's the usual corporate response to being loudly accused of racism. If we examine the records of United and Southwest and Delta, would we really find that AA has significantly more complaints of racist treatment of passengers and employees? Maybe we would. If so, then maybe AA does have a problematic corporate culture, as Christine suggests. I remain skeptical that a handful of incidents that happened to go viral, and a lawsuit, constitute statistical evidence. |
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Post by Don on Oct 25, 2017 20:02:37 GMT -5
Why should we think the purpose is to get a donation? Do they have a history of doing this sort of thing in order to solicit donations? I am being cynical, but that's the usual corporate response to being loudly accused of racism. If we examine the records of United and Southwest and Delta, would we really find that AA has significantly more complaints of racist treatment of passengers and employees? Maybe we would. If so, then maybe AA does have a problematic corporate culture, as Christine suggests. I remain skeptical that a handful of incidents that happened to go viral, and a lawsuit, constitute statistical evidence. Purely anecdotal, but I was an aviation economist for a while in the 70's, and AA had a bad rep when it came to race relations back then. At the time, it was a matter of rot at the top, IIRC. I'm not aware of current corporate culture. |
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Post by nighttimer on Oct 25, 2017 20:02:55 GMT -5
It's extremely germane if it points to a pattern of systemic and institutional racism at American Airlines. Yes, I know Ben Stein rejects the concept of institutional racism. Only a fool would say that and Stein is often extremely foolish. Well, it can't point to much of anything, as given, since it's just a letter making accusations...again, from 2015. And again, it's specific to AA employees in two locations: Philly and DC. A letter from two years ago is not ancient history. It's two years and accusations of institutional racism should be properly investigated whether its specific to Black AA employees (and I emphasize Black because race matters here) in two locations or 22 locations. Discrimination is discrimination and it doesn't require large numbers of complainants to necessitate a serious inquiry to prove or disprove the accusations. Unfortunately, it's unlikely a Justice Department run by Jeff Sessions is interested in finishing a job started by Loretta Lynch. Nothing in Sessions' career arc bends toward pursuing justice for Black people. Every story out there from people claiming mistreatment by airlines is not equal to every story from people claiming mistreatment by airlines. Being racially discriminated may not as serious as lost luggage or a canceled flight to some people, but it's probably real important to the Black passengers who are being discriminated against. Trivializing their complaints by dumping them in a barrel with every other complainant indicates a lack of understanding of how Black people encounter and deal with casual acts of bigotry from unexpected quarters far too frequently to be written off as a few bad eggs giving crappy customer service. If it's common sense there are unhappy travelers on American Airlines who get bumped, get moved, have their flights canceled, it is equally common sense there are unhappy travelers who are racially targeted, racially profiled and racially discriminated and that's not a trifling thing. That's serious and unlike getting bumped, getting moved and having a flight canceled, it's illegal. The NAACP issuing a travel advisory is not purposely parroting State Department language for dangerous regions. Travel advisories for Blacks predate the State Department's appropriation of it. From 1936 to 1964, Negroes traveling by car across America, The Green Book served as their guide to finding the safest routes and accommodations between Point A to B to "avoid embarrassment" or something much worse. Following the passage of the 1964 Civil Rights Act, Mr. Green discontinued publishing his guide. Segregation was on its way out and he may have thought the need for The Green Book had gone with it, but while most Americans are familiar with Blacks having to ride in the backs of buses in the South, few know the races were kept separate and unequal at airports as well. Everyone enjoys looking back at history and crowing, "We've made so much progress since then!" That's not in dispute. What is in dispute is who thinks the most progress has been made and who thinks how much still needs to be. Both sides think they're right, but only one side knows for certain they are because its still happening to them. Until it happens to you you can't know what its like and you certainly can't tell those it happened to it shouldn't matter to them because it doesn't matter to you. |
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