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Post by Deleted on Dec 21, 2016 14:48:05 GMT -5
Optimus, are you implying that possibly there will not be an enduring and overwhelming need for clothing and accessories relating to electronic dance music concerts, festivals, and raves? By the way, I may not be entirely objective, since I happen to loathe electronic dance music.
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Post by markesq on Dec 21, 2016 15:15:00 GMT -5
Going to law school is a viable plan with a liberal arts degree. (If you get into a top law school - my understanding is that the market is pretty glutted right now and that lawyers who didn't graduate from top schools are often in the same boat with the Art History majors.) My argument is actually the reverse of dumbing down universities. The problem is that universities have been dumbed down and turned into vocational centers. I just don't see a way that the modern economy can support millions of people of indifferent intellect and academic ability majoring in random areas of interest with not much real world applicability if there aren't jobs to support the level of debt they're taking on to study those majors. Amadan is quite right, for example, that if you attend Yale or Harvard law school, you'll have no trouble at all paying back your loans. But if you go to a lower tier law school, you may find yourself in serious trouble when you graduate. I considered all that before I saddled myself with debt. Some kids don't -- and that's one thing we should push for them understanding before they take on debt.Ahh, student debt, my pet subject. And I shall quibble with Cass here because I went to Duke Law School, graduated with honors, and got a job at a fancy law firm in Dallas where I was totally overpaid me. That may sound like agreement not a quibble, but.... I met my wife at Duke law school, and together we left with around $300,000 in debt. She also got a fancy firm job but we were both miserable, utterly hated it, and moved to Austin where I took a $100,000 pay cut to be a prosecutor, and she couldn't get a job because she was pregnant. Yeah, not cool. So, interest mounted, payments were missed, and 15 years later we still have six figures of debt. Could we have stayed at high-paying jobs? Maybe. We'd have lost our marriage in the process, and not have the beautiful kiddos we now have, and been totally unhappy and unfulfilled. Now I'm doing good for the world (I think!), and have time to write novels and work with refugees. So even though we have a great life, that debt hangs over us like the sword of Damocles, and I hate that so many of our young people are finding themselves in the same position. I guess my main point is that you can't predict how your life/career will go, and when you take on thousands in student debt, no matter the other changes you make to improve your life, that debt remains the one, dispiriting, constant. Now, please go five million copies of my books so I can pay those fuckers off...
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Post by Deleted on Dec 21, 2016 15:23:29 GMT -5
Well, I didn't have kids, which probably helped, but I paid off my debt in five years working at a miserable law firm and living fairly frugally. (Certain costs, of course, are unavoidable -- one must dress the part, etc. -- but I lived in a little cheap apartment, etc., and devoted as much as I could to loan payment). I have been debt-free ever since. But -- and here's my point -- I knew the cost. I was willing to pay it. I accurately assessed my ability to get a miserable but high-paying job, and gritted my teeth to stick it out. It sucked, but I did it. If you don't know that's the cost, or you find it unendurable (which I understand), that's going to come back to bite you. And if you go to Joe Blow Inc. School of Law and Stuff and think you'll have the opportunities someone at a top ten school has, you should rethink. I knew that, too, which is why I had decided if I didn't get in a top ten school, I wasn't going to law school. ETA: In other words, by "no trouble" paying your loans, I didn't mean your life would be a bowl of roses and you'd adore your job. I meant you'd be able to find a job that would enable you to pay them off, if you wanted one. Yale (my school) also had a nifty plan to help those who were committed into going into public interest law just out of law school and staying there -- t he COAP program. So if you really wanted to do that, it was possible. I knew going in that I'd be OK and be able to pay my loans. But I looked pretty carefully at that before I took them out. Every kid should. Many don't.
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Post by celawson on Dec 21, 2016 16:25:07 GMT -5
Acutally, Opty, I think the real world will teach him some invaluable lessons that he would never learn in college. That could turn out to be a good thing.
My cousin works in consulting and has a lot of fraternity friends who are successful business guys from USC. They are telling him they have trouble finding good new employees out of college. College grads these days know how to get good grades, but they know very little of how to be good at social interaction, creative problem solving, working in a team, etc. These kids who did nothing but study through high school so that they could get the GPA and high SAT scores to get into a good college (with the help of their helicopter parents) have severely unbalanced high school years, and that results in underdeveloped social skills and poor problem solving skills. This kid is going to sink or swim in the real world, and he will soon learn what it takes to swim.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 21, 2016 16:35:36 GMT -5
Yeah...this kid doesn't strike me as having much innate common sense.
and why would he have more of that to offer as a drop-out than as a graduate? I agree there are real world skills you don't learn by simply studying, but why would those who got a degree somehow be slower to learn them once they got out than those who couldn't stick it out?
Most of the practical law and legal skills I know I learned on the job. Indeed, I didn't learn much in the way of nuts and bolts law at Yale at all. But law school trained me to think like a lawyer. Had I just jumped from college to be an apprentice at a law firm, I suppose I could have learned quite a bit -- but I'm certainly a better lawyer and thinker for my three years of law school.
eta:
I'm also a better writer and thinker for my four years as an English major. That too has served me well.
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Post by Optimus on Dec 21, 2016 16:43:59 GMT -5
Acutally, Opty, I think the real world will teach him some invaluable lessons that he would never learn in college. That could turn out to be a good thing. Yes, but the same could be said for college. I think college could teach him some invaluable lessons that he would (likely) never learn in the real world. Show me the data, not just anecdotes. I partially agree with you, but I've also been an employer and worked in HR (I had roughly 500 employees) and that overgeneralization about millennials is just that; an overgeneralization based on media narratives. I recall similar things being said about Gen X about 20 years ago. "They're lazy." "They don't care about anything." "They're too apathetic." etc. I know, have worked with, and have hired quite a few really bright, hard-working millennials. I also know, have worked with, and have fired more that a few lazy, whiny, brainless, un-self-aware millennials. Yes, some of the negatives might be explained by the state of our educational system over the past decade or so. But, there seems to be just as much variation within each generational group as there is between each generational group. This kid will probably very quickly be taught some valuable lessons in the real world, but he also would've been taught others had he stayed in college. Someone who gets that frustrated that easily and gives up that quickly likely has some personality characteristics which will not serve him well in life. If he doesn't correct those soon, the best lessons he'll learn from the real world will be what type of Ramen tastes least gross and how long to fry chicken fingers before they're ready for the next customer.
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Post by Rolling Thunder on Dec 21, 2016 16:52:24 GMT -5
He's young. We all get to make mistakes like this when we're young.
But, I think the worst decision ever made was to end the engineer-in-training programs. It worked for decades, allowing many young people to work as an engineer's apprentice and eventually take the exam to become a full fledged professional.
Still works for plumbers and electricians. Should be reinstated, IMO.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 21, 2016 16:56:01 GMT -5
The trouble is, now mistakes you make when you're young live forever on the internet.
He didn't just drop out and start a business. That might be fine, if he had a good plan. But he did it with a public fuck you and a misspelled rant. Not bright. Not good. I would not hire him.
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Post by Rolling Thunder on Dec 21, 2016 16:59:51 GMT -5
True.
Say, how'd you like that music link?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 21, 2016 17:13:57 GMT -5
I could ban you, RT. For good this time.
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Post by Christine on Dec 21, 2016 17:43:30 GMT -5
Is he actually wearing a K State sweatshirt in that picture? Seems at odds with his, er, message.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 21, 2016 17:46:41 GMT -5
Chicks dig K-state sweatshirts.
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Post by Christine on Dec 21, 2016 17:56:09 GMT -5
He probably wears it in the club he gets into with his fake id, too. : P
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