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Post by celawson on Feb 14, 2017 13:13:34 GMT -5
Ohio, I wouldn't mind Trump leaving and Pence in charge. And I'm not a Flynn fan, so I'm glad he's gone. But I maintain that these leaks are dangerous, no matter where they are coming from. Cassandra is absolutely correct -
And no, not everything Trump has done has been stupid/evil/dangerous. And no, I don't think things are as chaotic as certain folks are trying so desperately hard to represent. And no, the Trump folks are not "evil". Why does the left work so hard to claim people are evil? Of course there will be bumps in the first few weeks of such a different type of administration. And mistakes. And yes, I believe some of the reactions to Trump are as worthy of concern as some Trump stuff - 9th Circuit politics, anyone? I thought the legislative branch was there to legislate, not make policy.
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Post by Amadan on Feb 14, 2017 13:26:44 GMT -5
And no, not everything Trump has done has been stupid/evil/dangerous. And no, I don't think things are as chaotic as certain folks are trying so desperately hard to represent. And no, the Trump folks are not "evil". Why does the left work so hard to claim people are evil? Of course there will be bumps in the first few weeks of such a different type of administration. And mistakes. And yes, I believe some of the reactions to Trump are as worthy of concern as some Trump stuff - 9th Circuit politics, anyone? I thought the legislative branch was there to legislate, not make policy. Let's be honest here - some people exaggerate the degree to which the Trump White House is pure evil incarnate, and some people (e.g., you) exaggerate the degree to which this Presidency is not an ongoing dumpster fire of embarrassment and ineptitude. If this weren't a Republican administration, you would howling at the daily howlers coming out of the Trump White House. (Yes, I am using the "Your opinion is founded on your biases" argument, because good lord, I don't care how much you want to believe that voting for Trump wasn't a mistake, you cannot pretend this is going well or that it's all the fault of that lying, biased media trying to make him look bad.)
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Post by Deleted on Feb 14, 2017 15:06:27 GMT -5
That pretty much sums up my take on this administration thus far. I don't think one necessarily has to conclude anyone in it is being deliberately evil to see it that way.
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Post by nighttimer on Feb 14, 2017 15:23:46 GMT -5
Ohio, I wouldn't mind Trump leaving and Pence in charge. And I'm not a Flynn fan, so I'm glad he's gone. But I maintain that these leaks are dangerous, no matter where they are coming from. Cassandra is absolutely correct -And no, not everything Trump has done has been stupid/evil/dangerous. And no, I don't think things are as chaotic as certain folks are trying so desperately hard to represent. And no, the Trump folks are not "evil". Why does the left work so hard to claim people are evil? Of course there will be bumps in the first few weeks of such a different type of administration. And mistakes. And yes, I believe some of the reactions to Trump are as worthy of concern as some Trump stuff - 9th Circuit politics, anyone? I thought the legislative branch was there to legislate, not make policy. Yeah, the Legislative branch is there to legislate and the Executive branch is there to issue executive orders such as banning immigrants from seven Muslim countries. The Judicial branch is there to tell the Legislative and the Executive if they're breaking the law and violating people's rights. You got a problem with that? ALL White Houses leak and so does this White House leaks. It leaks like a sieve. But only the hopelessly naive or deliberately obtuse could believe it's all coming from Obama holdovers trying to get Trump. That's Alex Jones/Rush Limbaugh crazy talk and it's b.s. and it's bad for ya. There are power struggles within that building. Bannon vs. Preibus vs. Kushner vs. Ivanka vs. whoever is delivering the pepperoni/sausage/mushroom/double cheese XL pizza to the Oval Office. There is a vicious competition between various camps for the ear of the President, and usually the last one in the office with Trump gets it. Sure, there's a lot of raw sewage flowing out of 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue, but that's because there's a lot of it backed up in the pipes and when the orders coming from the top are confusing, contradictory and poorly thought out, why expect peak performance from the subordinates? You're not going to get it. When Sean Spicer is sent out to lie his ass off to the press and Reince Priebus is hearing his job is at risk from a personal drinking buddy of Trump's, you think that doesn't resonate right down to the rest of the staff? They know if they came in with Priebus and Spicer, they'll go out with them too. This does not promote a happy working environment. Trump may engender loyalty in a few of his circle, but that doesn't necessarily mean longevity is assured. It seems to depend on what his mood is on a given day. Flynn is more than just an embarrassment to a fledgling administration. He's a disaster and let me be the first to say Flynngate could spark a new round of that age-old question, "What did the President know and when did he know it?" Sally Yates was absolutely vilified, here and elsewhere, for standing up against Trump's executive orders restricting Muslim immigration and he immediately fired her. Flynn stayed on the job for another TWO WEEKS after it was learned he had lied to Pence. As it turns out, Yates warned Trump his national security adviser may have been compromised. She didn't "betray" anyone, but Mike Flynn? Congress MUST investigate the shenanigans in the Trump White House.
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Post by Amadan on Feb 14, 2017 15:32:22 GMT -5
Sally Yates was absolutely vilified, here and elsewhere, for standing up against Trump's executive orders restricting Muslim immigration and he immediately fired her. She was not vilified here. Her motives, and the appropriateness of her course of action, were questioned. General consensus was she did the right thing badly. Don't distort the truth.
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Post by celawson on Feb 14, 2017 16:05:32 GMT -5
Ohio, I wouldn't mind Trump leaving and Pence in charge. And I'm not a Flynn fan, so I'm glad he's gone. But I maintain that these leaks are dangerous, no matter where they are coming from. Cassandra is absolutely correct -And no, not everything Trump has done has been stupid/evil/dangerous. And no, I don't think things are as chaotic as certain folks are trying so desperately hard to represent. And no, the Trump folks are not "evil". Why does the left work so hard to claim people are evil? Of course there will be bumps in the first few weeks of such a different type of administration. And mistakes. And yes, I believe some of the reactions to Trump are as worthy of concern as some Trump stuff - 9th Circuit politics, anyone? I thought the legislative branch was there to legislate, not make policy. Yeah, the Legislative branch is there to legislate and the Executive branch is there to issue executive orders such as banning immigrants from seven Muslim countries. The Judicial branch is there to tell the Legislative and the Executive if they're breaking the law and violating people's rights. You got a problem with that? Sorry, I meant judicial above, and yes I do have a problem with judicial opinions that aren't based as much on law as on personal politics. Otherwise, absolutely not and I welcome any judicial opinion that catches Trump doing something against the law or inconsistent with our Constitution. ALL White Houses leak and so does this White House leaks. It leaks like a sieve. But only the hopelessly naive or deliberately obtuse could believe it's all coming from Obama holdovers trying to get Trump. That's Alex Jones/Rush Limbaugh crazy talk and it's b.s. and it's bad for ya. Doesn't it seem like these leaks are much worse than prior administrations' leaks? I mean presidential phone calls? How many shenanigans have other transition teams gone through which we blissfully don't know about because not as many leaks? There are power struggles within that building. Bannon vs. Preibus vs. Kushner vs. Ivanka vs. whoever is delivering the pepperoni/sausage/mushroom/double cheese XL pizza to the Oval Office. There is a vicious competition between various camps for the ear of the President, and usually the last one in the office with Trump gets it. Sure, there's a lot of raw sewage flowing out of 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue, but that's because there's a lot of it backed up in the pipes and when the orders coming from the top are confusing, contradictory and poorly thought out, why expect peak performance from the subordinates? You're not going to get it. When Sean Spicer is sent out to lie his ass off to the press and Reince Priebus is hearing his job is at risk from a personal drinking buddy of Trump's, you think that doesn't resonate right down to the rest of the staff? They know if they came in with Priebus and Spicer, they'll go out with them too. This does not promote a happy working environment. Trump may engender loyalty in a few of his circle, but that doesn't necessarily mean longevity is assured. It seems to depend on what his mood is on a given day. Flynn is more than just an embarrassment to a fledgling administration. He's a disaster and let me be the first to say Flynngate could spark a new round of that age-old question, "What did the President know and when did he know it?" Yes, Flynn seems like a disaster. But do we even know what the conversation with him and Russia actually contained? There's a ton of speculation here so far. Sally Yates was absolutely vilified, here and elsewhere, for standing up against Trump's executive orders restricting Muslim immigration and he immediately fired her. Flynn stayed on the job for another TWO WEEKS after it was learned he had lied to Pence. As it turns out, Yates warned Trump his national security adviser may have been compromised. She didn't "betray" anyone, but Mike Flynn? Congress MUST investigate the shenanigans in the Trump White House. Amadan said,
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Post by Amadan on Feb 14, 2017 16:19:04 GMT -5
with a healthy sprinkling of fake news thrown in there to boot. Okay, seriously - exactly which news is fake (as opposed to "biased" or "unflattering to Trump")?
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Post by nighttimer on Feb 14, 2017 16:22:31 GMT -5
Sally Yates was absolutely vilified, here and elsewhere, for standing up against Trump's executive orders restricting Muslim immigration and he immediately fired her. She was not vilified here. Her motives, and the appropriateness of her course of action, were questioned. General consensus was she did the right thing badly. Don't distort the truth. I report. I don't HAVE to distort. That's your thing and I'm calling "bullshit" on it. As you aren't honest enough to walk back your remarks calling Yates "tactically stupid," go ahead and tell me you were really paying her a compliment. I won't believe a word or it, but it'll be fun watching you weasel out of your own words again.
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Post by nighttimer on Feb 14, 2017 16:26:54 GMT -5
) So far I'm glad Trump is taking a hard line on Iran regarding the ballistic missiles. Obama was dangerously soft with Iran. I'm glad he's being firm with sanctuary cities (some of whom are backing off of their routine of breaking the laws, in fear of losing funding). I think the travel ban was a necessary idea that was unfortunately implemented badly, and the 9th Circuit went too far. I like the ideas of strong borders and controlled immigration, with regards to our southern border in particular and immigrants in general. I'm glad Trump met with union leaders - it's a sign of his commitment to help the middle class. I'm glad he wants NATO to take their fair share of defense spending. I love his pro-Israel stance. And I'm glad he's calling out the biased press (which have been near hysterical). Heck, I even loved that he called out Chuck Schumer's "fake tears". No other POTUS would have. At the same time, I wish he'd stop Tweeting. I wish the EO travel ban would have been more smoothly implemented. He has been a weird POTUS, that's for sure. I've cringed more than once. And I'm hoping he settles down. But I'm not ready to call everything a disaster at this point. Not even close. And I do think the media is making these last 3 weeks seem much worse than in reality, with a healthy sprinkling of fake news thrown in there to boot. Were you glad when Trump said "grab 'em by the pussy?" or was that fake news or alternative facts?
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Post by Amadan on Feb 14, 2017 16:28:25 GMT -5
ohio49er Avatar Feb 14, 2017 16:22:31 GMT -5 ohio49er said: As you aren't honest enough to walk back your remarks calling Yates "tactically stupid," go ahead and tell me you were really paying her a compliment. I won't believe a word or it, but it'll be fun watching you weasel out of your own words again. I was not paying her a compliment. I said what she did was tactically stupid, and I stand by it. If you consider any criticism to be "vilification" then lawhamercy. We be all vilifying each other up in this place.
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Post by Vince524 on Feb 14, 2017 16:29:32 GMT -5
Were you glad when Trump said "grab 'em by the pussy?" or was that fake news or alternative facts? Maybe it was an alternative pussy?
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Post by nighttimer on Feb 14, 2017 16:55:04 GMT -5
ohio49er Avatar Feb 14, 2017 16:22:31 GMT -5 ohio49er said: As you aren't honest enough to walk back your remarks calling Yates "tactically stupid," go ahead and tell me you were really paying her a compliment. I won't believe a word or it, but it'll be fun watching you weasel out of your own words again. I was not paying her a compliment. I said what she did was tactically stupid, and I stand by it. If you consider any criticism to be "vilification" then lawhamercy. We be all vilifying each other up in this place. Yeah, I do consider calling a respected attorney and honorable public servant like Sally Yates "tactically stupid" to be vilifying her and dubbing it "criticism" is being unnecessarily (but not unexpectedly) kind to the slam. So, no distortion of the truth on my part. What else you got?
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Post by robeiae on Feb 14, 2017 17:05:40 GMT -5
I report. I don't HAVE to distort. That's your thing and I'm calling "bullshit" on it. Call whatever you want to call, but the idea that you don't "distort" is laughable. "Vilify" is not the same thing as "criticize," imo. But based on the quotes you pulled to demonstrate your claim, that's where you're going to end up in defending your statement. Which is stupid, imo. People here were certainly critical of Yates, but she wasn't being vilified by any reasonable standard. Insisting that such is absolutely the case is distortion, plain and simple. That said, so what? It has nothing to do with anything, really. It just seems to be an angle through which you can cast yourself as the lone voice in the wilderness here with a take on things no one else shares, even when you don't actually have a drastically different position from others, at all.
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Post by Amadan on Feb 14, 2017 18:57:44 GMT -5
Yeah, I do consider calling a respected attorney and honorable public servant like Sally Yates "tactically stupid" to be vilifying her and dubbing it "criticism" is being unnecessarily (but not unexpectedly) kind to the slam. You are really, really reaching and you know it. I can think of people I actually like and admire whose actions I would call "tactically stupid," and I'm pretty sure you could too. Conversely, I also stated that I agreed with Ken White that she is an "imperfect hero." To call that "vilification" is either a distortion or evidence of skin thinner than Trump's.
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Post by michaelw on Feb 14, 2017 19:32:28 GMT -5
Yeah, I do consider calling a respected attorney and honorable public servant like Sally Yates "tactically stupid" to be vilifying her and dubbing it "criticism" is being unnecessarily (but not unexpectedly) kind to the slam. I can think of people I actually like and admire whose actions I would call "tactically stupid," and I'm pretty sure you could too. The Atlanta Falcons, for one.
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