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Post by Deleted on Feb 14, 2017 9:30:40 GMT -5
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Post by robeiae on Feb 14, 2017 9:47:15 GMT -5
Actually, I think he lied to them. There was nothing inadvertent about it. The admin tried to ride it out, but quickly realized that wouldn't work, so they cut him loose.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 14, 2017 9:57:19 GMT -5
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Post by robeiae on Feb 14, 2017 10:06:04 GMT -5
I think Flynn probably assured Pence that there was nothing to worry about. Maybe Pence shouldn't have believed him, but frankly at that point in time Pence (and Trump) was probably caught up in the moment and accepted the idea that officials from the previous admin were actively trying to undermine the Trump admin in any way that they could. Now Pence realizes that he was duped by Flynn, and I think Pence is the one who forced the resignation, not Trump, because Flynn made him--Pence--look like a chump (and he actually cares about that).
Speculation, to be sure, but as good as anyone else's, imo.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 14, 2017 10:54:21 GMT -5
Quite possible. But that doesn't give me much confidence in their vetting process.
I now have a couple of friends who are judges. And holy crap, the vetting process they went through! They talked to people who worked with them at their high school summer jobs, for pity's sake. They dug under and around every aspect of their lives. It was just incredible. They asked about petty interpersonal squabbles and mundane office politics going back years and years.
Granted, federal judges are lifetime appointments and Flynn's wasn't. Still -- this is a mighty huge allegation to just take Flynn's word on it. And it wasn't just a random tabloid rumor. This was the freaking Justice Department raising the flag.
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Post by nighttimer on Feb 14, 2017 10:56:34 GMT -5
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Post by celawson on Feb 14, 2017 11:22:59 GMT -5
I love how the perspective of certain news stories can be clear simply by the sort of picture they choose to put of the subject of the story. That picture of Flynn on Cass's CNN link is a great example, haha, the grim expression, the darkness shadowing his face.
I'm wondering if anyone here is concerned about the level of white house leaks we've been seeing. These are at the highest level of conversations, even of the POTUS speaking with leaders of other countries. It seems clearly an effort to bring down this administration. Not only does it seem dangerous for national security purposes, but how about the rights of the Americans who are having these private conversations?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 14, 2017 11:37:31 GMT -5
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Post by celawson on Feb 14, 2017 11:46:28 GMT -5
I'm not sure we can assume they're coming from the Trump administration. That Flynn conversation was before Trump took office. And they've still got a lot of Obama staff around, don't they?
Between the media which wants to make everything this administration does seem horrible stupid and evil, to whoever is doing these leaks, I do have some sympathy for this transition even though there have been some missteps. But it really seems like a nefarious attempt to bring Trump down in any way possible.
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Post by Amadan on Feb 14, 2017 11:58:54 GMT -5
I love how the perspective of certain news stories can be clear simply by the sort of picture they choose to put of the subject of the story. That picture of Flynn on Cass's CNN link is a great example, haha, the grim expression, the darkness shadowing his face. I'm wondering if anyone here is concerned about the level of white house leaks we've been seeing. These are at the highest level of conversations, even of the POTUS speaking with leaders of other countries. It seems clearly an effort to bring down this administration. Not only does it seem dangerous for national security purposes, but how about the rights of the Americans who are having these private conversations? Like Cass said - if anyone is out to get Trump, it's not the Democrats. (Well, they are, but I don't think you can blame them for the dysfunction inside the White House.) As for the slant of the photo used - well, yeah. Dude just got canned amidst serious allegations - what do you expect them to run, his wedding photo?
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Post by nighttimer on Feb 14, 2017 12:12:57 GMT -5
I love how the perspective of certain news stories can be clear simply by the sort of picture they choose to put of the subject of the story. That picture of Flynn on Cass's CNN link is a great example, haha, the grim expression, the darkness shadowing his face. I'm wondering if anyone here is concerned about the level of white house leaks we've been seeing. These are at the highest level of conversations, even of the POTUS speaking with leaders of other countries. It seems clearly an effort to bring down this administration. Not only does it seem dangerous for national security purposes, but how about the rights of the Americans who are having these private conversations? I call bullshit. If you're really concerned about national security, be concerned--be VERY concerned--that the guy who not vetted by Congress or apparently the Trump Administration either had to resign after 25 days on the job. Be concerned that Michael Flynn was apparently subverting the national security of the United States of America in his conversations with the Russian ambassador even before President Obama sanctioned his country. If you're really concerned about national security, why aren't you concerned with Flynn's manipulation of Trump's policy toward Russia? Why aren't you concerned about a rogue military officer lying to his superiors? I submit you aren't concerned about national security. Your concern is over the embarrassing incompetence of the Trump Administration. Your concern is the Trump Presidency isn't even 30 days old yet and it looks like a bumbling, amateurish shitshow. Leaks from the White House aren't going to bring down this putrid presidency. Their own malfeasance should take care of that. I'm not sure we can assume they're coming from the Trump administration. That Flynn conversation was before Trump took office. And they've still got a lot of Obama staff around, don't they? Between the media which wants to make everything this administration does seem horrible stupid and evil, to whoever is doing these leaks, I do have some sympathy for this transition even though there have been some missteps. But it really seems like a nefarious attempt to bring Trump down in any way possible. What a total CROCK. You really think there aren't Republicans in the White House who are horrified and appalled by this dysfunction? You're real quick to dump this on "Obama staff" hanging on, when everyone on Team Trump was brought in and immediately told Obama holdovers at the State Department and other branches of government to hit the bricks. How stupid do you think Reince Preibus and Steve Bannon are? Missteps? You think Trump having to reassure the president of Mexico he's not going to invade his country or hanging up on the prime minister of Australia and scaring the hell out of our NATO allies are missteps? Sorry, but we passed Missteps several exits ago. We're on the "Don't Follow Me, I'm Lost Too" offramp heading into God Only Knows What territory. The media (does that include conservative media?) doesn't have to work to make everything this Administration seem horrible, stupid and evil. This Administration is full of horrible, stupid and evil people and they have horrible, stupid and evil plans for the rest of the country. Good to know there's some Kool-Aid sippers here to defend the S.S.S. Trump even as it plows full steam ahead into the biggest and hardest iceberg it can find. I only wonder when this ship of fools goes down, if you'll be paddling by in a rowboat to throw Trump a life preserver?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 14, 2017 12:31:33 GMT -5
To be clear, I am absolutely not defending the S.S.S. Trump (if quoting me above was meant to imply that I am -- I'm really not sure). As I think should be pretty clear from my post, I'm doing just the opposite.
Of course Democrats are working against this administration. Feverishly. Every day and every hour. That's obvious.
But it also seems clear that leaks are coming from people inside or very close to the White House -- in other words (since Obama holdovers were told to hit the skids), from people the Trump administration brought in. Either they weren't loyal to Trump to begin with, or else they are so appalled by what they're seeing they can't keep their mouths shut, or, I suppose, they're just really indiscreet.
I don't see how one could attribute all of these leaks to Democrats; I believe at least some must come from Republicans.
What is being leaked opens a disturbing (indeed, terrifying) window into the chaos of the Trump administration. The fact that there ARE such leaks opens another, separate window of concern. I'm glad some of this stuff is coming to light instead of being buried -- but on the other hand, a leaky, insecure White House is not a good thing. Our enemies will be more than happy to take advantage of it.
I also, for the record, think it's ludicrous to think Hillary's emails were a problem, and not see the problem with Trump's lack of security -- or to blame Hillary for the insecurity of her server, but not blame Trump for the leaky mess that is his White House.
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Post by Vince524 on Feb 14, 2017 12:52:19 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Feb 14, 2017 12:57:07 GMT -5
Absolutely, this is not over. Nor should it be. This is actually a pretty damn serious mess.
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Post by Don on Feb 14, 2017 12:57:13 GMT -5
That's what scares me most of all. Trump may be all over the map, but that wouldn't be a problem for Pence. He knows exactly where he'd steer the ship of state. Nehemiah Scudder may just be a few years late on the scene.
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