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Post by robeiae on Mar 15, 2017 8:35:34 GMT -5
Not since Geraldo Rivera opened Al Capone's vault on prime time have I seen a news piece this pathetic. Maddow teased a big scoop on Trump's taxes, then--after an extensive wait--revealed the goods: two pages of Trump's 2005 tax return that showed Trump paid far more in taxes and at higher rate than either Obama or Sanders. CNBC is evening running an op-ed that notes how helpful this was for Trump and noting this possibility: On tonight's show: evidence that maybe, just maybe, not all priests are virgins! Oh, I almost forgot the twitter mockery: |
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Post by Don on Mar 15, 2017 13:04:42 GMT -5
I have to admit the entire debacle, played out on my liberal friends' facebook feeds, was rather entertaining. The certainty of doom for The Regime, the breathless anticipation, the startling disillusionment that they'd been played for suckers, all reminded me of Obamaphobes just a few short years ago.
Well, except for the "disillusionment that they'd been played for suckers" part. I see a bit more awareness of that this time around than back then.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 15, 2017 13:52:44 GMT -5
I am actually pissed off at Maddow for this -- precisely BECAUSE I think it sucks royally that Trump hasn't released his tax returns, precisely BECAUSE I'd be willing to bet Trump hasn't done so because there's stuff in there that would make him look bad.
I'd also be willing to bet the Trump team leaked those two pages themselves. And she took the bait, in the worst possible way, by making an extraordinarily big deal out of two pages that told us very little.
It was a story, yes. But it should have been played in a straight, non-sensational way to emphasize the outrageousness of Trump not releasing the rest of his tax returns.
Instead, Maddow looks kind of lame, and it plays into the "see, nothing here! let's forget the whole thing!" angle the Trump team would like us all to buy.
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Post by nighttimer on Mar 15, 2017 17:06:16 GMT -5
I bow to no one in my loathing for All Things Trump, but that was one sorry-ass spectacle on Rachel Maddow and MSNBC last night. I don't get what all the hooping and hollering was about. You would have thought they had found a check made out to Trump with "V. Putin" on the signature line. If you're gonna come for the head of the king you'd better not miss. MSNBC completely whiffed on this one.  |
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Post by Vince524 on Mar 15, 2017 17:30:01 GMT -5
What I don't get is it wasn't like Geraldo's opening of Capone's vault. She knew what she had. So did her producers. Right? Didn't anyone bother to read them before hand and say, "Um... I don't think this is the bombshell you were hoping for."
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Post by michaelw on Mar 15, 2017 17:47:39 GMT -5
I am actually pissed off at Maddow for this -- precisely BECAUSE I think it sucks royally that Trump hasn't released his tax returns, precisely BECAUSE I'd be willing to bet Trump hasn't done so because there's stuff in there that would make him look bad. Same. And I hope it doesn't get forgotten just how dishonest Trump was about releasing the returns. He made it pretty clear, at various times, that he would in fact release the returns at some point. I think we can say pretty definitively at this point that all the stuff about being audited was just an excuse. |
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Post by maxinquaye on Mar 15, 2017 18:33:28 GMT -5
I mostly struggle to call myself a journalist because I've been out of the business for so long, plying my trade as a copy-writer. I've been on the wrong side of the ethical fence for so long. But the reason I struggle to call myself a journalist is because there are a few I admire, and I don't want to compare myself with them.
Then I realise why journalists are often down there with bankers and politicians in public perception, and it's because of stunts like this. This was literally click-bait in video form. I'm sure MSNBC was happy about the eye-balls seeing their ads, but it does no good for the company. And it does no good for Maddow.
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Post by poetinahat on Mar 15, 2017 18:37:17 GMT -5
That was my initial reaction, from the other side of the globe: They built up expectations... for THAT?
Have these media people learned nothing in the past eight months? FFS.
If this is how the "resistance" is going to play out, then get ready for eight years of Trump.
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Post by robeiae on Mar 16, 2017 8:04:31 GMT -5
With regard to Trump's tax returns, I'm sure there's stuff in them that would have made him look bad. But anyone with his kind of net worth who is also a developer is going to be in that same boat, as a matter of course. And it's not like Trump is using TurboTax to do his own taxes; he's got a team of tax professionals to do them. He also gets audited quite frequently, I am sure.
So I find the hope in this regard--that there will be something "juicy" in those returns--kinda empty. Plus, a lot of people simply don't know how to process what's in these sorts of returns--including people in the media--as was clearly evidenced by the reaction to the manufactured tax scandal over Ann Romney's horse.
People--pretty much all people, in fact--look to minimize their taxes. There's an entire industry built around this reality. The IRS looks to maximize the taxes it collects, because that's it's job. In that regard, it goes after big fish like Trump all the time, because getting an extra 1% from someone like him is obviously better than getting an extra 1% from someone like me (which is why huge chunks of the population can and do cheat on their taxes and not risk getting caught).
So what was going to be in Trump's returns, really? Nothing much. Potentially, some numbers that show Trump paying less taxes (rate-wise) than others, I guess. But as we've learned, champions of the downtrodden--like Sanders--play the same game.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 16, 2017 8:43:35 GMT -5
I doubt he did anything illegal on his taxes.
That said, the taxes don't need to show anything illegal in order to make Trump look bad, or to conflict with his statements or the image he wants to project.
E.g., they could show him as much less successful that he brags.
In any case, all the other presidents have released theirs. If I'm not mistaken, in a previous election, he criticized someone else for not releasing theirs. (I'll have to google later to see if I'm remembering that right.)
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Post by Deleted on Mar 16, 2017 8:50:56 GMT -5
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Post by robeiae on Mar 16, 2017 9:30:03 GMT -5
In any case, all the other presidents have released theirs. If I'm not mistaken, in a previous election, he criticized someone else for not releasing theirs. (I'll have to google later to see if I'm remembering that right.) He may have, I don't know. But regardless, there's no requirement for candidates to do so. There's a simple political calculation here: what would be worse, the bad press from not releasing the returns or the bad press generating from the returns? Absent a requirement, that calculation is going to be made. One can't very well argue that Trump made the wrong call in this regard. Personally, I think the tax return stuff is largely pointless. It makes sense to make sure people have been paying their taxes, but that's about it. The specifics don't really matter, especially for people like Trump, who again is probably audited far more often than not (ditto for Romney). |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 16, 2017 9:46:54 GMT -5
A legal requirement? No. Something every president has done, something that is a demonstration of clean hands, nothing-to-hide transparency, something the American have come to expect? Yes. And then there were his ridiculous games and lies about why he hadn't released them. Also, he recommended Mitt release his sooner rather than later during the 2012 campaign. www.foxnews.com/transcript/2012/01/19/trump-gop-stop-playing-president-obamas-hands/Eta: Of course, none of this makes Maddow's performance less ridiculous. Eta: My position on this is not dissimilar to my position on Hillary's emails. I never thought there was some illegal "lock her up" smoking gun in there as so many Republicans believed. But I didn't like the way she handled it. |
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Post by celawson on Mar 16, 2017 11:29:04 GMT -5
If Trump's camp leaked those two papers, then Trump is a master manipulator. But we already knew that. He's extremely street smart. Interesting that it was a year when he paid a lot of taxes and made a lot of money. Maybe he does those two things almost every year, but why leak 2005?
I never knew much about Maddow, I rarely watch MSNBC, but I did see her break down emotionally on election night and I thought that was ridiculous. This is even more ridiculous.
I've said this before - let's stop this faux outrage and continual hysteria, and start focusing on the things that really matter. The world is in bad shape, and people are worried about Trump's tax returns? If there's something that bad in there, let the IRS take care of it. *shrugs*
In the meantime, Maddow did mainstream media no favors at a time when it could have used a favor.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 16, 2017 12:35:57 GMT -5
I've been wondering, for a while, what these yuuuuge problems are that Trump's policies are supposed to fix. From my outlook, a lot of things in the country are in damn good shape, and Trump's policies will make them worse. Ditto on the world. And the things that are a problem? It terrifies me that he's in charge of "fixing" them.
But I think regardless, the integrity and character of our president is a very important matter indeed, which is why this kind of shit bothers me. I think I'm clearly on the record as giving a shit whatever party is involved. He's a lying liar and manipulator, the worst since Nixon (and he may top Nixon). That troubles hell out of me.
And as far as distractions from important matters go, I think Trump is doing a pretty good job of doing that himself, what with accusing Obama of wiretapping him and such. Indeed, the tax issue really stems from Trump's refusal to do what every other major candidate does as a matter of course.
Also to note -- many of us do not feel the mainstream media has a credibility problem. This Maddow thing was ridiculous and I'm happy to give her a kick for it, but to wring your hands and call the NY Times unreliable fake news is at least equally ridiculous.
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