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Post by michaelw on Mar 20, 2017 23:36:54 GMT -5
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Post by Don on Mar 21, 2017 6:58:26 GMT -5
I'm grateful every day that we have a vast, monopolistic apparatus of institutionalized violence, aggression and coercion to protect us from violence, aggression and coercion.
I'm also glad I voted to show my support for, and submission to, such wise leadership. My willing co-operation should be enough to keep me out of the shower next time, right?
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Post by Vince524 on Mar 21, 2017 11:58:18 GMT -5
I'm not inclined to go by an article by Think Progress. www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/ct-florida-inmate-hot-shower-death-20170320-story.htmlI think there's still reason to be concerned. If I read the article correctly, they're saying the shower didn't cause his death. I'm unclear if they mean if he hadn't been put in the shower, would he have lived, or died. Why did they put him in there? Did he soil himself, which is certainly conveyable. Or was it punishment, which is in and of itself unacceptable. Why was he in there that long? I mean, if I'm a correctional officer and I'm in charge of bringing you your food, and to be cruel, I bring you bad tasting food, but it is still giving you what you need to survive, and you're eating it, and you die from something unrelated, that means I shouldn't be charged in your murder, but it doesn't mean there was no mistreatment. Probably a bad example, but best I could come up with. In other words, even if the shower didn't cause the death, doesn't mean there should be no charges, but I'm unclear to the specifics beyond. I think maybe a independent inquiry might be in order. |
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Post by robeiae on Mar 21, 2017 12:37:34 GMT -5
If I read the article correctly, they're saying the shower didn't cause his death. I'm unclear if they mean if he hadn't been put in the shower, would he have lived, or died. Why did they put him in there? Did he soil himself, which is certainly conveyable. Or was it punishment, which is in and of itself unacceptable. Why was he in there that long? I don't think that's right, at all. Especially since it was known that he had a mental illness. I can relate a story here: A guy I knew--this was decades ago--was working as a guard at the Krome Detention Center in Miami-Dade (which is for holding illegal aliens, many of whom are waiting to be sent back to their countries of origin). One day, he beat the crap out of a detainee and was (rightly) fired for this. He lost his temper because while he was escorting a group to the showers/bathrooms, one of the men jumped out of line and started screaming at him. He tried to tell the detainee to get back in line, but the detainee dropped his pants and proceeded to take a giant dump in the middle of the hallway, then started kicking it around at people. These are not easy gigs. Regardless, what happened to Rainey wasn't right, imo. But I don't know that he actually was burned to death by hot water. I actually kind of doubt that part of the story. Here's the full report, which of course may not be wholly true: media.local10.com/document_dev/2017/03/17/DarrenRaineyincustodydeathcloseoutmemo_9163712_ver1.0.pdfIt has pictures and details of the shower used. It's not the case that the shower is so small that Rainey had to stand under the water. In fact, the water was actually coming in in a single stream. If you read the ME's analysis (starting on page 51), I think it all make some tragic sense. A number of factors led to his death, and that includes the prolonged time in the shower. But as the ME notes, there were no burns/skin slippage on his feet, which I think clearly indicates he wasn't scalded to to death by hot water, so some of the stories on this are reporting something as a fact that is no such thing. Still tragic, still wrong imo. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 21, 2017 13:05:06 GMT -5
No excuse, ever, for shutting a prisoner in a shower for two hours. Given the consequences, jail time is warranted, IMO.
Mental illness is a terrible, terrible thing. It is NEVER right for guards to mistreat prisoners. But the mentally ill require a special degree of compassion and understanding.
My dear, gentle, funny father died of a terrible disease (frontotemporal lobe disorder) that progressed incredibly rapidly -- within three years he went from tutoring in calculus to being unable to write his name. And tragically, the disease affects personality and behavior. My dear father at times became violent, and the behavior described in Rob's post...Yeah. Not far from some things my dad did in his final terrible months.
He could not help it. But some of the less compassionate aides whom we dealt with clearly couldn't understand or believe that (the doctors did, but then, they likely knew more about his disease). I shudder to think what would have happened to someone who behaved like that in a prison. I had to intervene more than once with nurses and aids.
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Post by Vince524 on Mar 21, 2017 15:21:02 GMT -5
The thing is, there are 2 separate things here. Abuse and death. One may not have led to the other, but if it existed, it is, in and of itself, a serious issue.
It's also possible that while leaving him in the shower didn't cause his death, that had they checked on him, they may have been able to get him medical attentions sooner.
It doesn't sound like there's any denial that he was in the shower for 2 hours though, so again, even if they can't pin the death itself on the CO's, why excuse the abuse.
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