|
Post by robeiae on May 9, 2017 8:14:33 GMT -5
Michele Scarponi, 1979-2017: www.bbc.com/sport/cycling/39677856This was in late April. Reports are that it was an accident, that the driver didn't see Scarponi. But now, Chris Froome: www.bbc.com/sport/cycling/39854961Good that he's unhurt, but if his take is correct, that's messed up. Some bicyclists piss me off around here on a near daily basis, because they ignore traffic laws in one moment, then expect everyone else to follow them in the next. But man, they are in a vulnerable position when in traffic. So I certainly think drivers need to give them space. That said, there are places conducive to riding in traffic--wide lanes, little traffic, bike lanes, etc.--and places that are not. Perhaps it's time to restrict bicycle traffic in some areas? Of course, I don't know that the above incidents reflected any poor decisions by the cyclists, whatsoever. Still, dying while out for a bike ride seems like something that shouldn't happen. Chasing a bicyclist up onto a sidewalk with a car certainly shouldn't happen. Thoughts?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 9, 2017 8:27:27 GMT -5
as a cyclist -- perhaps it's time cyclists and motorists were taught the rules of the road -- and that motorists had it drummed into their heads that cyclists have a right to be there.
I am a very cautious, rule-abiding cyclist -- not at a dare-devil weaving in traffic against lights. Yet more than once I've had motorists nearly sideswipe me at 5 a.m. when there was nothing else on the road and yell "get on the sidewalk!" (where, by the way, it is illegal for me to be).
An astonishing number of motorists have no idea bikesbelong on the road, and are in such a fucking hurry they'd rather kill a cyclist or a pedestrian (we have a lot of those killed in NYC, too) than lose 30 seconds of their precious time.
Team cyclist. Team "time to get more cars off the road."
ETA:
R.I.P., Mr. Scarponi. 37 is much too young.
|
|
|
Post by robeiae on May 9, 2017 8:40:35 GMT -5
I don't ride much anymore. But I used to go at it pretty good, back before it was uber-hip to ride in pro-cyclist gear. I had a lot of near misses, normally at corners where some dipshit opted to go around me to make a right, rather than slow down and give me the right of way that was legally mine. But you know, looking back, I never had such incidents when I was in high school (and in fact biked down the main artery of my city, which had no bike lanes). I've often wondered about that.
The four reasons I came up with:
1) I was biking in Virginia when I was younger, not South Florida. 2) Drivers were better/more polite in "the good ol' days." 3) Lanes were wider. 4) Cars were different: they didn't accelerate as well (on average) and weren't as maneuverable.
As to Team Cyclist v. Team Car, again it's those bicyclists who insist on ignoring traffic laws: they run red lights and stop signs and they shoot up to the front of a line of stopped cars down the side or down the middle (motorcyclists do this, too). There's nothing more frustrating than, after having carefully getting around a bicyclist is heavy traffic, having to do it all over again because the the bicyclist cheated at a red light or stop sign.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 9, 2017 8:50:02 GMT -5
yes, I've seen asshole cyclists, too. Where a cyclist (or pedestrian) acts like an asshole, and an innocent motorist obeying all the rules and being careful hits them, I'm team motorist. (or team pedestrian -- I've almost been hit by bikes as well as cars). We all have an obligation not to act like an asshole.
but I know I have much too often seen cars absolutely disdainful about the right of way of other vehicles and people (or paying no attention, or just too damn aggressive), recklessly oblivious to the fact that they are driving an enormous hunk of potentially fatal, swiftly-moving metal.
since I'm paranoid as hell and quite fearful of traffic, I am desperately cautious when riding in it. Also, my helmet and cycling clothes are vivid, unmissable colors. And seriously -- a lot of drivers have no idea cyclists have a right to be on the road, and seem oblivious to how vulnerable they are.
I really think that driving tests should incorporate more training on this sort of thing. For that matter, having cyclist training courses would not be a bad idea.
|
|
|
Post by robeiae on May 10, 2017 7:56:16 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by Optimus on May 12, 2017 11:26:36 GMT -5
I'm biased because I'm impatient, but if there's not a bike lane, cyclists need to GTF off the road if there's traffic behind them and they're slowing it up.
Just the other day, I was driving on a road with a 45 mph speed limit, stuck behind 3 cyclists going 18 mph. It was a road with some hills and double yellow lines, so no way to go around. I was stuck behind them for nearly 2 miles.
That's bullshit.
If a cyclist wants to be on the road, then they need to be able to go a safe speed. A car going 25 miles under the speed limit would be pulled over immediately because they are a safety hazard (and a car traveling at that speed would be pretty suspicious, I imagine).. But because it's someone on a bike, nothing gets done.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 12, 2017 12:27:30 GMT -5
You do understand that it's illegal to ride a bike on the sidewalk, don't you? If there's a shoulder, most cyclists prefer to stay there, but there isn't always. There should be.
Frankly, I think unless you're on the way to the hospital, it won't hurt you to be slowed up a bit for two miles.
ETA:
I cycle, walk and drive, so I'm well aware of the assholes among all three groups. But of the three, drivers are by far the biggest danger, and by far the most entitled-feeling. I've been held up behind cyclists who could just as well hitch over to the side and let me pass, or annoyed by one who is breaking traffic rules, but frankly, much less often than I've been nearly killed by a driver who could won't recognize that there's absolutely nowhere (legal) for me to go, and who can't wait another fucking half mile for the place where he can easily pass me.
|
|
|
Post by celawson on May 12, 2017 12:34:58 GMT -5
Los Angeles has tried to make accommodations for cyclists and increase awareness of the fact that it is legal for bikes to share the road with cars. Hence this law: www.latimes.com/local/la-me-bike-clearance-20140917-story.htmlI agree it can be irritating, but man, a cyclist is just no match against a car or the asphalt. Working in brain and spinal cord injury, I've seen this too close up for comfort. I can't even wrap my brain around chasing a cyclist up the sidewalk. However, in Opty's case - why couldn't they pull over and stop to let some traffic pass? Also, I wonder if bikes were allowed on sidewalks if there would be more or fewer injuries? *scratches head*
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 12, 2017 12:47:31 GMT -5
I agree with you that when a cyclist CAN pull over to let traffic pass, it's a good idea (even if they aren't legally obligated by the rules of the road). But I can tell you that it isn't always possible. You've got spots where it is simply unsafe to do so, and where there really is nowhere else to cycle. Generally, though, in cases like that you don't have to go all THAT far before you reach a place where it's possible for the cyclist to pull over or the motorist to safely pass.
There is good reason not to allow bikes on sidewalks, at least in places where pedestrians actually use the sidewalks (like NYC), because pedestrians are no match for bicycles. Here in NYC, small kids' bikes with tires under a certain size are allowed on sidewalks, but that's it. Sometimes tourists or messengers break that rule and they are a menace on the sidewalk.
NYC has gradually been adding bike lanes. That's a good thing. The places I've been in Europe that have dedicated bike lanes are just much better and safer, for everyone.
Really, the thing to do is for everyone to know and follow the rules and exercise caution and consideration.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 12, 2017 13:43:29 GMT -5
...and also, a wee bit of patience. Really, how much time have you lost to a slow cyclist, and how important were those minutes?
I have no time for dare-devil cyclists who blow off traffic rules. People who disregard traffic rules endanger themselves and everyone else. But the fact that they move more slowly? Yeah. I don't see that as something to wring our collective hands about.
Try driving in Wales or Ireland, where large stretches of the country are covered in loooong stretches of road with one narrow lane and places to pass scattered every few miles. Cars, trucks, cyclists, pedestrians and sheep all sharing them. You might have stretches where you can go the speed limit, but by and large you will likely have large stretches as a driver where you are not king of the road. (And, indeed, stretches where you might have to back up half a mile to let something coming in the other direction pass.) In the U.S., drivers feel like, damn it, they should everything else. I disagree, except on, say, major multi-lane highways.
|
|
|
Post by Optimus on May 12, 2017 13:48:14 GMT -5
You do understand that it's illegal to ride a bike on the sidewalk, don't you? You do understand that state laws are often different and that it's totally legal in TN where I live, don't you? In TN, if a vehicle (and this applies to bicycles, given that the same motor vehicle laws apply to them) is traveling more than 10 miles slower than the speed limit, and there are cars lined up behind them (due to the slow speed), the driver is required by law to pull over or change lanes to get their slow ass out of the way and let traffic pass. If a cyclist is riding slowly (as they tend to always do) and it's safe for other cars to pass them, then I have no problem with them. But, ever since cycling became more of a popular thing over the past decade or two, there are far more inconsiderate people on them than there used to be. I have no problem with conscientious cyclists (and motorcylists). I have a huge problem with the inconsiderate assholes.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 12, 2017 14:33:05 GMT -5
I suppose it might make sense to have different laws where road conditions are different; here you will be heavily fined if you ride on a sidewalk, and it's been true other places I've lived. But then, in places I've lived, sidewalks are crowded.
I know this: as a cyclist, I've narrowly escaped serious accidents due to impatient, asshole drivers when I've been obeying traffic laws. A few friends in fact did get injured that way. As a motorist, I've once or twice lost five minutes due to a slow cyclist. The former strikes me as a bigger issue.
I agree cyclists should pull over if they can in that particular scenario, but I'll add that most would probably prefer to do so if they feel they can. It's actually pretty fucking stressful and scary to ride with an impatient car on your tail. I've been there, and couldn't wait to get the hell out of the situation. But sometimes the driver, particularly. If he doesn't cycle, can't see that it really isn't feasible for the cyclist to do that.
If we're talking 30 miles behind a cyclist where it's somehow impossible to pass yet somehow easy and feasible for the cyclist to pull over and the cyclist is really waaaaaay slower than the speed limit, I am sympathetic.
If we are talking a couple mile of shoulder less, narrow, winding road, I am not at all sympathetic.
People usually really could spare an extra 5-10 minutes on the way to the mall.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 12, 2017 14:40:51 GMT -5
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 12, 2017 14:58:09 GMT -5
This doesn't have much to do with bicycle safety, but it is about a guy arrested in NYC for riding his bike on a sidewalk, and it's so kooky I must share it. m.huffpost.com/us/entry/3500257Periodically, the NYPD goes through a little rash of cracking down on tiny, minor offenses. Sounds like this was during one of those times... ETA: Spoiler: the guy ran out to a nearby store to get pudding for his pregnant wife. He was arrested for riding his bike on the sidewalk and thrown into jail overnight with a crack addict because he'd had a previous summons for riding his bike on the sidewalk seven years before: Anyway. Here it is very illegal to ride on the sidewalk. Laws can different by local municipality, but it is always legal to ride in the street, and usually not on the sidewalk. Penalties do not usually involve jail time, but can often involve pricey tickets and require court appearance. So, like, if you're in doubt, it's best not to take your bike on the sidewalk.
|
|
|
Post by robeiae on May 23, 2017 8:56:31 GMT -5
|
|