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Post by Angie on Jul 12, 2017 15:43:29 GMT -5
Welcome, Mikey! Dive right in - none of us bite. Except maybe Vince.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 12, 2017 16:14:55 GMT -5
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Post by Optimus on Jul 12, 2017 17:00:25 GMT -5
Welcome to the club, Mikey!
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Post by Christine on Jul 12, 2017 17:23:44 GMT -5
Don't let all this niceness fool you, Mikey. They are all salivating at the prospect of ripping your future arguments into tiny little pieces and setting them to the torch. Look, Angie already has the bonfire going. (I mean, welcome )
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Post by Angie on Jul 12, 2017 20:03:19 GMT -5
To be fair, I always have this bonfire going. You know, just in case...
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Post by nighttimer on Jul 12, 2017 20:11:45 GMT -5
(Am I the only one totally obsessed with this story?) Here's the thing about the "this is very high level and sensitive information but is part of Russia and its government's support for Trump" line: It isn't just that it demonstrates conclusively that Trumpito, Jared, and Manafort expected (and welcomed) this Russian lawyer to provide info from the Russian government at this one meeting. Look at Trumpito's response -- he is not at all surprised that the Russian government wants to help his Dad. He isn't all "really?! wtf, the Russians want to help my dad?". Moreover, he doesn't say "'part of'?! you mean there's more? there's an even larger effort for the Russian to assist my dad's campaign?" No surprise at all. Which implies very, very strongly he knew already that the Russian government was working to help the campaign. Which means -- this is the top of the iceberg. I mean, if this came out of the clear blue sky, wouldn't you be surprised? Also -- that line about Rhona implies that stuff from this effort has previously been sent to Trump Sr. via Rhona, or at the very least, it would come as no surprise to Trump Sr. to receive such info. Implication: Trump Sr. knew about the effort. As far as what the info actually was, we have no reason at all to trust Don Jr. on this. Come on. What we do know is that 40 minutes after this meeting, Trump tweeted about Hillary's 33,000 emails. (will provide tweet later when I have time to dig it up again, but this is a fact.) Trump was in the building at the time of the meeting. Really? He didn't go? They never told him? The tweet is coincidence? And that "later in the summer" line -- to me, this sounds like his suggested timing for the Russians (via wikileaks?) to leak info (the emails?). To me, the email strongly implies it is part of a larger, ongoing plan, not just an isolated thing. I hasten to add that I think it damning even if it was an isolated thing. Short answer? Yes. It's only you. You're looking for that silver bulllet. That shiny crucifix. That precious object which will surely slay the Trumpenstein Monster once and for all. I get it. I totally get it, but I would only remind you of this: if you're expecting Mitch McConnell and Paul Ryan to suddenly morph into Sam Ervin and Peter Rodino, you need to back away from that wine glass. STAT.
McConnell and Ryan are partisans and as partisan as it gets. They do not work with Democrats and are openly contemptuous of any suggestion they should. You really think these two creeps are going to become statesman and reach out in a bipartisan way to investigate or impeach Donald Trump? This is an interesting story for politics junkies, but it's nothing to get obsessed over because it's not going to go where you are wishing and hoping it will go. Even if Donny Trump Jr. posted pictures of his daddy yanking his pud while two Russian hookers are relieving their bladders on the Presidential Suite sheets Barack and Michelle slept on, it's not gonna move the Impeachment Needle one notch. The Republicans, same as the Russians, already know what sort of blithering idiot Trump is, but hey, he got them Neil Gorsuch on the Supreme Court instead of Merrick Garland, which makes Trump a useful idiot. Why would they surrender an advantage like that simply because liberals think they should be as appalled too by this administration's incompetence, vulgarity, criminality and gross malfeasance? You can hope in one hand and shit in the other, Cassandra, but one is gonna fill up a helluva lot faster than the other.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 12, 2017 20:42:25 GMT -5
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Post by Christine on Jul 12, 2017 20:58:54 GMT -5
The internet belongs to Cass by all rights.
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Post by haggis on Jul 12, 2017 22:42:50 GMT -5
Hello everybody (waves) The most heart-felt thing I've got to say to all this is "yes Maxamus,I am entertained, very entertained" www.youtube.com/watch?v=YbBiXPVKuTABTW cassandra, thanks for the welcome and the karma Hola, Mikey. Welcome to the party.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 13, 2017 14:20:04 GMT -5
in connection with Don. Jr.'s meeting and what is (or used to be) "normal," read this letter from George H.W. Bush to his son George W. in 1988. And weep for how far we've sunk.
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Post by mikey on Jul 13, 2017 15:04:38 GMT -5
read this letter from George H.W. Bush to his son George W. in 1988. And weep for how far we've sunk. Cassandra, I think the to whole idea behind the election of Trump was to "moon" the political establishment (Bush family represents). With the upheaval we've seen in our politics, many of us might say "look how far we've come". It's odd to me that American voters only choice was between Hillery and Donald. Gag)) In my view, our nations problems run much deeper than Donald and cnn.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 13, 2017 16:15:38 GMT -5
read this letter from George H.W. Bush to his son George W. in 1988. And weep for how far we've sunk. Cassandra, I think the to whole idea behind the election of Trump was to "moon" the political establishment (Bush family represents). With the upheaval we've seen in our politics, many of us might say "look how far we've come". It's odd to me that American voters only choice was between Hillery and Donald. Gag)) In my view, our nations problems run much deeper than Donald and cnn. derail to thread/ Yes, our problems do run broader, and yes, I agree that neither Clinton nor Trump was ideal, and yes, mooning the establishment is why some voted Trump. But that doesn't make electing Trump a good thing. I might have more sympathy with the idea of mooning the establishment had it not resulted in the election of a blatantly obvious grifter with a long history of corruption, lying, bankruptcies, and moral turpitude, no conception of truth, honor, or loyalty (except insofar as it involves loyalty to him), and no solid principles. He's worse on all fronts than any Clinton or Bush, and it was all out there for people to see. Taking a gamble on the likes of Gary Johnson or Evan McMullen, I can understand. Trump -- IMO, that's like saying "I don't want to go to Disneyland or Hawaii, so we're going to North Korea on vacation instead!" I have plenty of criticisms for both Bushes and both Clintons, but I'd frankly be very happy to have any of them back in Trump's place. I posted the Bush letter, FWIW, to counter the whole "oh, seedy covert meetings are how it's done" narrative. Bush Sr. didn't even want to risk it LOOKING improper. Can you imagine Trump Sr. sending that letter to Don Jr.? /end derail The "mooning the establishment" thing is a totally valid and worthwhile conversation to have, Mike, but if we want to really get into it beyond a post or two, we should start a new thread so as not to derail this one. As you can likely tell, we're fine with wandering off topic now and then (e.g., to welcome you ), but we don't want to completely lose the original conversation in a new one! And that has the potential to be a very big topic, I think. ( Don especially would welcome a "mooning the establishment thread, and we have at least one person kicking around who would be glad to have someone else defending Trump's election in even a small way! Most of us are open to giving either Trump or Clinton a kick now and again in varying degrees. We have few third-party voters here, actually -- a greater percentage than in the general population by a long shot.) ETA: (Since I'm all derailed anyway, this is probably a good time to note -- Robeiae and I are both moderators and members. Our arguing with you as members does NOT mean we are giving you a mod reprimand! We'll tell you if we're acting as moderators. Otherwise, please rip our arguments to shreds as you would anyone else's, and with the same rules in place.)
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Post by Christine on Jul 13, 2017 18:31:16 GMT -5
<derail>
Mikey has more karma than posts
This is wrong
*flails*
</derail>
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Post by michaelw on Jul 13, 2017 18:38:47 GMT -5
^ I think it's just a sign we all have to up our game here.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 13, 2017 18:40:02 GMT -5
Nah, we just have to be extra nice to new people so they'll be extra confused when we go all pit bull on them.
ETA:
Gaah! I'm going through withdrawal! I want more Trumpito hijinks!
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