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Post by Deleted on Aug 3, 2017 10:12:11 GMT -5
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Post by celawson on Aug 3, 2017 10:58:14 GMT -5
I can't read the transcript right now due to paywall, and I'm off to work soon. But I don't see what's so appalling about the conversations in the excerpts above. At this point, are we aware of any terrible repercussions from Mexico or Australia because of the phone calls? These leaks really do need to be stopped. That's the most appalling thing I see here. They are DANGEROUS and highly inappropriate.
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Post by nighttimer on Aug 3, 2017 11:42:16 GMT -5
I can't read the transcript right now due to paywall, and I'm off to work soon. But I don't see what's so appalling about the conversations in the excerpts above. At this point, are we aware of any terrible repercussions from Mexico or Australia because of the phone calls? These leaks really do need to be stopped. That's the most appalling thing I see here. They are DANGEROUS and highly inappropriate. Well, if you haven't read the transcript and you don't know what was said between Trump and the leaders of Mexico and Australia, you really don't know what's so appalling about the conversations, do you? I have read the transcripts and they aren't simply appalling. They are absolutely abysmal! What is appalling and highly inappropriate and DANGEROUS is the idiot in the Oval Office. Here's a sampling of the discussion between Mexican President Pena Nieto and Fearless Leader: I...just...can't...even. The man's reasoning and speech are that of a child. A very slow and very stupid child with only the most tenuous grasp of the facts and none at all for complex issues. But it gets worse.
The conversation between Trump and Nieto was bad, but the call with Prime Minister Turnbull is out of this world and should be read to be believed ( I did and I can't). Some of the lowlights. He's right about that. But this whole matter perfectly illustrates what happens when you take a guy who would struggle making the french fries at McDonald's and give him the power and responsibility of the Leader of the Free World. It should come as no surprise that he can't handle it. We can agree on this much, celawson. It IS appalling. But not for the reasons you say it is.
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Post by michaelw on Aug 3, 2017 12:04:55 GMT -5
At this point, are we aware of any terrible repercussions from Mexico or Australia because of the phone calls? That's the wrong way to look at this, IMO. It's about how clueless Trump seems to be. Trump's attitude toward Mexico all along has been incredibly insulting to them. Yet, he thinks he can just tell Nieto what to say in public, because he--Trump--wants to look good here. That's not how foreign relations works. And really, that should seem obvious, beyond obvious. Imagine if Xi Jinping called up Trump and said, "You have to stop reminding people about our support for North Korea. Just stop bringing it up, OK?" What do you expect Trump is going to say to that?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 3, 2017 12:16:18 GMT -5
The leaker chose these transcripts extremely carefully.
They do not make the foreign leaders look bad. To the contrary -- they are remarkably patient and diplomatic, and everything they say is consistent with what they've said publicly.
No information within the transcripts is explosive except for the fact that they confirm that Trump is a lying liar who lies and a blustering fool, and that he has no business in the oval office.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 3, 2017 12:44:50 GMT -5
I can't read the transcript right now due to paywall, and I'm off to work soon. But I don't see what's so appalling about the conversations in the excerpts above. At this point, are we aware of any terrible repercussions from Mexico or Australia because of the phone calls? These leaks really do need to be stopped. That's the most appalling thing I see here. They are DANGEROUS and highly inappropriate. Question: Do you believe any world leaders retain confidence or respect for Trump? If so, which ones? I believe Bibi regards him as a useful fool and will get what he can from him. Duterte might actually like him. The rest I submit regard him with contempt, and our allies, with alarm. Our enemies (Putin included) contemplate him with genuine satisfaction. What do you think is the first thing Nieto and Turnbull said when they got off those phone calls? I guarantee it was some version of "god, I can't believe that asshole is president of the United States." Do you disagree? If not, how can you not think that's a terrible repercussion? ETA: By and large, I am not a fan of leaking. But here, it might be the only way we can expedite getting rid of (or at least containing) a man whom I -- and an increasing number of us -- believe is actually more dangerous to our country than the leaks. Congress and the administration won't do shit about it unless most people are screaming. Trump only cares about his dwindling fan club. The leaks are making more people in the middle wake up and recognize that the situation is neither normal nor sustainable.
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Post by mikey on Aug 3, 2017 13:08:02 GMT -5
Another leak from the white house #Ho Hum
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Post by Deleted on Aug 3, 2017 13:14:20 GMT -5
Another leak from the white house #Ho Hum In all seriousness, if Kelly cannot stop the leaks, no one can. Trump's own people are determined to leak. (The transcript was leaked by White House staff, according to WaPo.) Either he has vetted them extremely poorly, or else they are so disgusted by what they see and feel so helpless to stop what they feel must be stopped that they are resorting to thus. Or both. Either is a concern, but make no mistake, they are concerns that reflect badly on Trump.
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Post by mikey on Aug 3, 2017 13:52:31 GMT -5
The way I see it, is that Trump is the same person now as he was when he defeated what was it? 17 contenders for the nomination. And then went on to win the presidency. Trump is no surprise.
There's something way more sinister going on than Trump! The whole US of A style of democracy is being shredded right before our very eyes. (Not a bad thing)
Does any body really think that half of the voters in the US are just going to say dang, I made a mistake?
The leakers in the WH are not just innocent concerned citizens, They are the front lines of a coup d'état.
Just my take on this fiasco.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 3, 2017 14:41:17 GMT -5
People already are changing their minds -- Trump's poll numbers have plummeted among Independents, and even among Republicans. Democrats hate him even more strongly than they did.
Do you regard Nixon's "Deep Throat" informant the "front lines of a coup d'etat", and if so, do you condemn him for it?
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Post by nighttimer on Aug 3, 2017 14:59:10 GMT -5
The way I see it, is that Trump is the same person now as he was when he defeated what was it? 17 contenders for the nomination. And then went on to win the presidency. Trump is no surprise. There's something way more sinister going on than Trump! The whole US of A style of democracy is being shredded right before our very eyes. (Not a bad thing) Does any body really think that half of the voters in the US are just going to say dang, I made a mistake? The leakers in the WH are not just innocent concerned citizens, They are the front lines of a coup d'état. Just my take on this fiasco. A coup d'etat? Srlsy? Sorry, but that's a pretty ridiculous take. Every White House leaks. This one leaks like a sieve. The only way to stop sources from leaking is kill all the reporters and all the sources. Short of that, nobody is going to stop the leaks. Not Tony Scaramucci or Tony Soprano. Washington is a city of power and power means consolidating power bases. You think Jared Kutchner who ran a newspaper does have his favorite reporters to drop tidbits about Steve Bannon to? Bannon came from Breitbart News. We know he's got friends still working there. Reince Preibus had been in that town for years and so has Mike Pence. People simply don't understand how this game is played.
Kelly can go around confiscating everyone's cell phone, notebooks and devices, but if it takes two tin cans and a string, the word is gonna get out and somebody inside the Trump White House is going to leak to somebody outside of the Trump White House. It starts with Trump himself. As soon as his aides and staffers say one thing, he goes on a Twitter tirade and says something entirely counter to their narrative undercutting their credibility. If the boss won't shut up why should the subordinates? Trump called the White House "a dump?" Maybe that's because there's leaks in the pipes and rats running through them. Trump is King Rat.
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Post by mikey on Aug 3, 2017 15:03:32 GMT -5
People already are changing their minds -- Trump's poll numbers have plummeted among Independents, and even among Republicans. Democrats hate him even more strongly than they did. Do you regard Nixon's "Deep Throat" informant the "front lines of a coup d'etat", and if so, do you condemn him for it? Are you suggesting there is only one person in the trump WH doing all this leaking?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 3, 2017 15:08:42 GMT -5
People already are changing their minds -- Trump's poll numbers have plummeted among Independents, and even among Republicans. Democrats hate him even more strongly than they did. Do you regard Nixon's "Deep Throat" informant the "front lines of a coup d'etat", and if so, do you condemn him for it? Are you suggesting there is only one person in the trump WH doing all this leaking? No. Almost certainly there are several. They m ay be working independently of each other, or not. But I don't see that it makes much difference to the question I asked. The result of the "coup" would be the same -- the president is out, the VP takes his place.
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Post by robeiae on Aug 3, 2017 15:23:01 GMT -5
I don't like what I'm reading in these transcripts. They represent just more evidence to demonstrate--imo--that Trump doesn't have the skills or temperament for the job of President.
That said, I don't like the leaking, either.
I can dislike both, right? Think both are serious problems?
With regard to that latter problem, I'm sure some of Trump's people have leaked stuff (including Trump). Of course, ever admin plays this game to some extent. But the idea that it's limited to his people is, I think, ridiculous. Comey leaked shit, we know that. People who worked for defense contractors have leaked shit. And as to the White House staff leaking shit, well the entirety of the "White House staff" was not appointed by Trump. WaPo's note of this as a source doesn't mean that it was one of Trump's people (nor does it mean that it wasn't). Regardless, there's just too much of this leaking going on, imo. It's worse now than under the past two admins (where there was still too much).
Of course, once something is out, it's out. So it shouldn't be disregarded or given immunity from criticism just because it came from a leaker, something that is also true of info coming from the DNC hacker(s).
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Post by celawson on Aug 3, 2017 16:28:49 GMT -5
Thanks for quoting more, NT. But don't you think this particular leak is in a different league than many of the others? Who freaking cares about Scarmucci's dinner? But leaking a private conversation between the POTUS and another country's leader is on a dangerous and extremely damaging level, no matter what the end game is. Look, we all agree Trump doesn't have the temperament nor the skill set to be a stellar POTUS. And some of you are saying that these leaks didn't make the other guys look bad. But what leaders are going to trust saying anything off the cuff or confidential or "real" to any of our POTUSs in the future now that this has happened? And how can the POTUS, any POTUS, work like that? A POTUS (Obama, IMO) can seem to have his s**t together and be appropriate and intelligent and classy, but that doesn't mean he won't still do things which are to many people bad policy- Iran deal, Obamacare, crapping on Israel, etc. Conversely, though a POTUS can be like Trump, he can still have good ideas and want to implement what is to many good policy (scrap the ACA, protect our borders, reform the tax code, strengthen our military etc.). We can be concerned, but trying to destroy the man in any way possible will damage more than Trump. Using leaks like this last one is also damaging the U.S. and the ability of any future POTUS (no matter what party) to be effective. This is tragic. EDITED TO ADD: Hmmm, so apparently there WERE some things said by the other leaders that could be problematic for them. According to National Review: www.nationalreview.com/article/450131/president-trump-foreign-leader-call-transcripts-leak-dangerous-precedent
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