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Post by Vince524 on Oct 23, 2017 20:10:16 GMT -5
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Post by Vince524 on Oct 23, 2017 20:16:28 GMT -5
Indeed, we do, and are not, respectively. Pointing out a sexist remark someone has made is, for me, a defense of/show of solidarity toward the person it was made it to. These things should not generally go unremarked upon, imo. But, as I said, Cass is solid on such matters, so she doesn't need me to say so. It's quite fucking freeing, actually. TCG FTW. That said, I've read your posts for six years now, and I can attest to the fact that you're a good egg, not sexist, at all. Not that you need to me to say so, either. ETA: I suppose asking you to be a bit more kind is out of the question.... Never mind. Anyhoo. Carry on. Your show of solidarity to your gender is duly noted. Does that mean had it been Opty or Amadan who had said the exact same thing you wouldn't feel it necessary to make a similar defense of/show of solidarity? I'm kind but not so kind as to be mistaken as being weak. If people get the impression they can push you around when they want, you can't complain when they push you around. It gives people the wrong fucking impression and this is why I am so adamant about discouraging that sort of shit. From certain quarters I expect that sort of thing. Those individuals have some serious hard-ons about me and some unresolved issues they need to work out with a good shrink. When the flamethrowers come from someone whom I'm typically on civil terms with, it's a bit more startling, but no less aggravating. I like to think I'm more of a good egg than a bad one and I try hard not be sexist, but yeah, I slip up. I'm human. So is everyone else and they can't possibly know what its like to have someone make demands of you they don't have any business making. I don't barter honesty to be politically correct and when I'm told upfront someone is putting me on blast to get a rise out of me, I figure they'll be disappointed if I don't give back what I've received. Respect is a two-way street. Show me none and you get none. After six years you should know that about me. I've never know Cass to not show respect until people really pushed their luck past all reason. Cass has no problem calling me out when she thinks I've gone too far, and I wouldn't want it any other way. I may not agree with it either, but I wouldn't want her to hold back. I respect that you have strong opinions, but you also push buttons. Don't be surprised when people push back.
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Post by Christine on Oct 23, 2017 20:48:16 GMT -5
Okay... so.... did you want to make a comment on how this information is relevant?
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Post by Christine on Oct 23, 2017 20:53:42 GMT -5
I've never know Cass to not show respect until people really pushed their luck past all reason. Point of note: even then she is not disrespectful. As if you could. As if anyone could. It is to laugh. Eta: just realized I read that as "I wouldn't want to hold her back." Sorry. Damnit. The Daffy Duck quote would've worked so well if you'd actually said that. I can't for the life of me understand why you think nighttimer would be surprised. Also, nighttimer is not the originator of all the pushed buttons, not by a long shot. In summary, STOP THIS NONSENSE.
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Post by Vince524 on Oct 24, 2017 7:31:44 GMT -5
Okay... so.... did you want to make a comment on how this information is relevant? I was wondering if anyone would find her use of the pronoun 'they' interesting. I've never know Cass to not show respect until people really pushed their luck past all reason. Agree As if you could. As if anyone could. It is to laugh. Eta: just realized I read that as "I wouldn't want to hold her back." Sorry. Damnit. The Daffy Duck quote would've worked so well if you'd actually said that. What nonsense? I'm speaking up on behalf of a fellow poster.
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Post by Amadan on Oct 24, 2017 8:36:45 GMT -5
I can't for the life of me understand why you think nighttimer would be surprised. Also, nighttimer is not the originator of all the pushed buttons, not by a long shot. In summary, STOP THIS NONSENSE. Everyone wants to stop the nonsense. We just have extremely divergent views on who's responsible for the nonsense. NT isn't always the button-pusher, but he never passes up an opportunity to push them, even when others are trying to avoid it. He can never say "You're wrong, here's why" - it always has to be "You're wrong, but of course I'd expect that from a stupid cowardly troll like you and everyone who doesn't agree with me hates black people and licks Trump's anus." Unsurprisingly, that's caused several of us to adopt an extremely hostile default posture towards him in response.
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Post by Amadan on Oct 24, 2017 8:39:13 GMT -5
I was wondering if anyone would find her use of the pronoun 'they' interesting. That's the trendy thing for "non-binary" people and other special unicorns who have discovered thirteen different genders. But I take Christine's point - if you want to hold someone up for critical scrutiny, have the guts to say what you think instead of waiting for others to do the critiquing for you.
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Post by Christine on Oct 24, 2017 8:53:45 GMT -5
I can't for the life of me understand why you think nighttimer would be surprised. Also, nighttimer is not the originator of all the pushed buttons, not by a long shot. In summary, STOP THIS NONSENSE. Everyone wants to stop the nonsense. We just have extremely divergent views on who's responsible for the nonsense. NT isn't always the button-pusher, but he never passes up an opportunity to push them, even when others are trying to avoid it. He can never say "You're wrong, here's why" - it always has to be "You're wrong, but of course I'd expect that from a stupid cowardly troll like you and everyone who doesn't agree with me hates black people and licks Trump's anus." Unsurprisingly, that's caused several of us to adopt an extremely hostile default posture towards him in response. Yes, I understand that's how you see it. I understand that's not how NT sees it. This is not unusual. The reality, I think, is that it takes a back for there to be a back and forth, so not responding in kind is the answer--for everyone, myself included when I feel slighted. I want to defend my arguments and beliefs, not my intent or my character. " But it's his fault" is what children say. I'm trying to not be a child anymore. Seriously. I really enjoy debating with you, and rob, and everyone else. I really would like it to continue. I also think NT's perspective is valuable, and the only one of its kind we've got. That's all I'll say on it because I'm starting to annoy even myself.
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Post by Amadan on Oct 24, 2017 9:17:55 GMT -5
Believe it or not, I don't want NT to go away either. I just want to not have a knife fight and deflect accusations of racism every time I argue with him. As you put it, I want to defend my arguments and my beliefs, not my intent or character, and NT always attacks the intent and character of people he's arguing with.
Your advice that there has to be a back for there to be a forth is what we hear as kids - "It takes two to start a fight, just one to walk away," etc. That's all very nice except it leaves the belligerent always claiming victory. (And before you ask "Well, so what?" the answer is that there is not much point in a discussion board if the most bombastic person always gets to shut down the conversation and have the last word.)
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Post by Vince524 on Oct 24, 2017 9:22:47 GMT -5
I was wondering if anyone would find her use of the pronoun 'they' interesting. That's the trendy thing for "non-binary" people and other special unicorns who have discovered thirteen different genders. But I take Christine's point - if you want to hold someone up for critical scrutiny, have the guts to say what you think instead of waiting for others to do the critiquing for you. Wasn't a matter of guts, I wanted to see if anyone else saw it and found it odd without my pointing it out.
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Post by robeiae on Oct 24, 2017 9:45:08 GMT -5
I don't find it particularly odd, for as Amadan says, it's the trendy thing to do these days (often followed up by outrage when others fail to follow suit, though that doesn't seem to be the case here).
As to the question of how the info on McKellop is relevant, that seems rather obvious: it's background on her that helps establish/explain where she's coming from, what is informing her actions.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 24, 2017 10:17:15 GMT -5
derail/ Believe it or not, I don't want NT to go away either. I just want to not have a knife fight and deflect accusations of racism every time I argue with him. As you put it, I want to defend my arguments and my beliefs, not my intent or character, and NT always attacks the intent and character of people he's arguing with. Your advice that there has to be a back for there to be a forth is what we hear as kids - "It takes two to start a fight, just one to walk away," etc. That's all very nice except it leaves the belligerent always claiming victory. (And before you ask "Well, so what?" the answer is that there is not much point in a discussion board if the most bombastic person always gets to shut down the conversation and have the last word.) Quite true, actually, which is why, as a mod, I tend to allow a certain amount of back and forth, as long as it doesn't get ridiculous. And if you stick with attacking what the other person said, rather than dragging in a litany of grievances from centuries past, sticking to words in the thread and not character, I'm probably not going to intervene at all. In this case, I chose to walk away because (1) Nighttimer was attacking ME -- and I have the power to ban his ass off the board if I choose, a privilege most of the rest of you don't share. I'd advise everyone not to take that particular line of "argument" as a model. (E.g., there was no substantive purpose at all to his last posts except to try to provoke me to losing my temper with an (IMO) blatantly sexist word that he knows pisses me off. FYI, that's totally not cool. Had it been directed at someone other than me, I would have modslapped.) (2) I frankly don't think I'm the one who came off worse in that exchange. Therefore, not responding in this case was, IMO, as effective as responding. (3) There was no way to respond other than descending to a petty level myself (which of course is one of the problems with a personal attack). and (4) I thought, "why not set a fine example of walking away from a spat?" As Christine notes above, sometimes that is the best practice. I'll also note that I was pissed off enough to banhammer NT notwithstanding (1)-(4) above, and I try to make it a practice to walk away from my computer when I get really angry. /end derail Now. MOD NOTE:I am taking the privilege of the last word in this argument. Let's drop it and stay with the thread topic. I'm bothering to put in the last word (rather than simply saying "let's stop the argument") mainly to make the point that it wasn't in fact "just fine", lest someone think it's okay to proceed in that way in future. Yeah, not. And also to note that Amadan's point above is one I agree with, and why, FYI, I sometimes let someone get in a last word before pulling the plug on slugging match. (Sometimes, of course, I just don't get to an argument until it's spiraled out of control.) Thank you, Vince, and also Christine, for sticking in a word for me. As a member, I did appreciate it, and as a mod, I walked away last night without blowing the whistle on the argument, so it didn't qualify as post mod-note shit-stirring. Now, of course, I HAVE blown the whistle on the argument, so let's drop the personal and the who-killed-who and stick with the thread topic.Please and thank you.
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Post by nighttimer on Oct 25, 2017 21:07:41 GMT -5
Stephanie McKellop is unsubtle in her approach and perhaps would have been better served to simply be discreet in her pecking order of who gets called upon first and who gets called upon last. The same way a racist TA determines if the color of the raised hand doesn't jibe with their own preferences, they are ignored. But she wasn't embarrassed or afraid to speak the truth she lives so I can't be to defend her from those who would demonize her for doing the right thing as she sees it.
Traditionally, in the college classroom is sets up like this.
White men have the most juice.
White women have less juice.
Black men have less juice than White women and much less juice than White men.
Black women have less juice than Black men, White women and much much much less juice than White men.
Malcolm X explained why.
“The most disrespected person in America is the Black woman, the most unprotected person in America is the Black woman, the most neglected person in America is the Black woman.”
Ab-so-fucking-lutely.
I will always respect Black women, I will always protect Black women and I will never neglect Black women. To not do so would be to disrespect, refuse to protect and neglect the Black women in my life and I will not do that.
It's Not about being liked. Not about being understood. Not about putting congeniality and civility ahead of principle and purpose. Not about getting along with those in power or merely fooling themselves they are.
I will never apologize for defending Black women being called upon before Black men or White women or White men. No matter who dislikes it, disagrees with it, dismisses it or is disturbed and disgusted by it.
To be treated equally doesn't mean everybody is treated the same.
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