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Post by michaelw on Dec 10, 2017 1:20:56 GMT -5
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Post by Don on Dec 10, 2017 7:06:50 GMT -5
What police state?
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Post by michaelw on Dec 10, 2017 9:21:57 GMT -5
BTW, a not-so-fun fact:
Maricopa County, where this took place, is the same jurisdiction where Joe Arpaio was (formerly) sheriff.
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Post by Vince524 on Dec 10, 2017 12:42:44 GMT -5
So everyone knows I'm in the 'gives the benefit of the doubt' to the cop club until the facts are in.
Here, it's pretty clear the facts are in, and yes the cop should be headed to jail. There was no reason not to just go cuff him once they were on the floor. Why have them crawl. It's stupid. The created that condition.
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Post by celawson on Dec 10, 2017 15:24:01 GMT -5
Soooo many instructions while the guy was intoxicated and scared. For Pete's sake, he was ordered to hold his hands up, then to CRAWL. I do think the chances for a bad outcome were maximized, when of course they should have been minimized. So yeah, in that last moment when Shaver reached back, I can see how a cop would have been concerned. But all of those steps leading up to it...no surprise at all that the poor guy did something "wrong". So tragic.
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Post by Christine on Dec 10, 2017 16:43:56 GMT -5
So everyone knows I'm in the 'gives the benefit of the doubt' to the cop club until the facts are in. Here, it's pretty clear the facts are in, and yes the cop should be headed to jail. There was no reason not to just go cuff him once they were on the floor. Why have them crawl. It's stupid. The created that condition. I think the reason for the bolded is that the suspects were right outside of the hotel room door they'd just exited. There was no way to know for sure whether someone else was in the room, with guns (all the cops knew was that there was a gun seen from the hotel window). Going to the suspects (close to the door) would have meant being in more danger, I think. While I can understand the valid concern when suspects put their hands in wrong places, previously the guy had put his hands behind his back (it looked like he was preparing to be cuffed, like he'd see it on TV, imo). This was initially suspect since he could have had a weapon in his waistband, but he didn't produce one, which was, I think, a pretty clear indication that he didn't have one. They didn't shoot him at that point, so why was a single hand movement toward his side enough cause to them shoot? It was also obvious the guy was scared out of his mind and floundering around while trying to do what he was being ordered to do. Why were the cops on such extreme high alert regarding him/his movements after observing all of this? Agree with c.e.--those commands were insane. Frankly, as much if not more than the cop with the gun, I think the cop who was giving the orders was to blame (seemed like he was the one in charge, as well). In the end this all looks like the poor guy was shot to death for screwing up one too many moves in some sick game of Mother May I.
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Post by mikey on Dec 10, 2017 17:01:23 GMT -5
Agree with c.e.--those commands were insane. Frankly, as much if not more than the cop with the gun, I think the cop who was giving the orders was to blame (seemed like he was the one in charge, as well). In the end this all looks like the poor guy was shot to death for screwing up one too many moves in some sick game of Mother May I. That'a exactly what it looked to me too. Sick
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Post by robeiae on Dec 11, 2017 8:36:20 GMT -5
I'm not sure what happened at the trial here, because the cop(s) got off completely. Was it 2nd degree murder or nothing?
Anyway, with regard to the footage, I've noticed--in the various real life cop shows that I watch from time to time--this "instruction" approach to dealing with suspects, and it goes right along with the "handcuff 'em all, just to be safe" approach. I think that an over abundance of caution is inflicting police departments, based on the erroneous idea that near-100% safety for the officers can be achieved. Cops are gonna get shot, stabbbed, hit, run-over, and so on by suspects from time to time. There's no way around it. It's not an easy gig and I know I couldn't do it. But that doesn't mean cops should have leave to treat everyone they meet as a potential mass-murderer, just because.
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Post by Vince524 on Dec 11, 2017 12:59:14 GMT -5
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