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Post by Deleted on Feb 14, 2018 15:50:53 GMT -5
AND this gives Mueller a good reason to check out Cohen's (as well as Trump's) tax returns to see just how this 130K payment was accounted for.
Of course, I'm pretty sure he's checking out Trump's already for money laundering, judging from the lawyers he's taken on for the investigation and given that Irakly Kaveladze and Aras Agalorov are tangled up in this, among others. Indeed, I'd say money laundering is the number one thing Trump is likely to be indicted for, even if it isn't until after his presidency. For serious.
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Post by michaelw on Feb 14, 2018 18:14:35 GMT -5
The whole thing is just hilarious to me. Cohen is basically admitting (implicitly) that there was an affair, because otherwise he would be out there explaining what the payment was for. You don't just give $130,000 to a random porn star for no reason. LOL.
But what's even better is how Cohen is acting like the prospect of an illegal campaign contribution is the worst accusation here. Like there's nothing to see here, because Trump cheated on his wife with a porn star AND paid hush money to cover it up, but hey, at least he wasn't breaking any campaign finance laws. Looooooooooooooool.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 14, 2018 18:22:06 GMT -5
The whole thing is just hilarious to me. Cohen is basically admitting (implicitly) that there was an affair, because otherwise he would be out there explaining what the payment was for. You don't just give $130,000 to a random porn star for no reason. LOL. But what's even better is how Cohen is acting like the prospect of an illegal campaign contribution is the worst accusation here. Like there's nothing to see here, because Trump cheated on his wife with a porn star AND paid hush money to cover it up, but hey, at least he wasn't breaking any campaign finance laws. Looooooooooooooool. Agree. And this idiot has been Trump's go-to lawyer for years. Only the best people, believe me. Seriously, this would be dumb out of a non-lawyer. From a lawyer, it's just astounding.
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Post by prozyan on Feb 14, 2018 18:59:48 GMT -5
But what's even better is how Cohen is acting like the prospect of an illegal campaign contribution is the worst accusation here. From a legal stand point it is. While morally objectionable, there is nothing illegal about either an affair or hush money.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 14, 2018 19:07:41 GMT -5
Laywer here. He was running for president when the payoff was made, and Stormy was about to give an interview. The hush money was used to keep her quiet so it wouldn't affect the campaign. As a lawyer, I think there's a pretty excellent argument that violates campaign finance laws. See., e.g., this discussion. blog.harvardlawreview.org/the-coming-storm-hush-money-and-the-federal-election-campaign-act/Taking that aside, I think it's pretty fucking problematic regardless. (1) it's pretty gross that we have a president who fucks porn stars just after his wife just gave birth to their child and pays bribes to hush up the porn star. (2) one of the Steele Dossier's allegations is that Trump had paid hush money to a bunch of Russian prostitutes. I would bet my bank account this turns out to be true. (3) We have a president who not only lies but is vulnerable to blackmail. The Bill Clinton/Monica thing? Bad. This? About eleventy million times worse. Seriously, what have we come to that "it's not illegal" would make this okay? (Not that you necessarily think this is okay. It's just that I have absolutely no doubt that this is how Trump supporters are going to argue this one.)
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Post by michaelw on Feb 14, 2018 19:17:40 GMT -5
But what's even better is how Cohen is acting like the prospect of an illegal campaign contribution is the worst accusation here. From a legal stand point it is. While morally objectionable, there is nothing illegal about either an affair or hush money. Of course. And obviously Cohen's job is to worry more about the legal front than anything else. But it's still hilarious, IMO. If I were Cohen's client, I would've preferred he just say nothing at all. That would've been waaaaay better than essentially confirming the basic story that was out there, all just to be able to point out there was nothing illegal. IMO, of course.
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Post by prozyan on Feb 14, 2018 19:21:31 GMT -5
Legal or Illegal is most certainly the most important question in THEIR view. Morals, ethics, etc....bleh, who cares? No news cycle lasts longer than 24 hours anyway. Aside from that, despite all the deplorable facts known about Trump he was: A) Still elected and B) Currently has a rising approval rating.....why should THEY care about optics? After all, no news cycle lasts more than 24 hours and the vast majority of the American public has was amounts to ADHD.
In order:
1) I agree.
2) Perhaps and even most likely. But really, so what?
3) The first part...is this unique in the history of the Presidency? The second part....again, I don't think this is unique in the history of the Presidency nor in the history of politicians in general. Anyone who arises to high power certainly has more than a couple of skeletons in the closet.
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Post by prozyan on Feb 14, 2018 19:24:12 GMT -5
Oh, absolutely. Maybe I just have a dark sense of humor, but I find the entire Trump presidency great comedy. I watched a documentary last night called Left of the Dial, about the beginnings of Air America Radio. It was made in 2004. It cracked me up to see how many people were running around with their hair on fire proclaiming Bush was going to end the world and bring down our precious Democracy (Republic really). If they only knew....
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Post by Deleted on Feb 14, 2018 20:11:40 GMT -5
Gaah! There is a level at which I find it to be high comedy -- except that it, yanno, MATTERS, and I'm not sure we have enough grown-ups left with the power to control him or mitigate the damage, and we have THREE. MORE. YEARS of this. I laughed at that "grab 'em by the pussy tape because he wasn't president then, and I thought for sure it would sink him. Now that he's actually our President -- yeah, my sense of humor cracked a while ago.
And while I do think a disproportionate number of politicians have stuff in their closet, I don't think most have anywhere NEAR what the current president has. W and Obama -- you can like or hate them politically, but I can't recall a credible breath of real scandal about either of them personally. I always thought they were both decent men. And yeah, B. Clinton was a hound dog for sure, but he wasn't in Trump's class. I mean, it's not just infidelity with Trump.
There's also, for me, the lack of dignity thing. Really, truly, I'd like to see our president be a dignified person. At least I'd like him or her to be not not dignified. I can live with some personal infidelity, to be honest (though I'm old-fashioned enough to prefer a president with a strong marriage). But there's a discreet mistress on the side, and then there's paying off porn stars.
Gaah. I really hate this. I've disagreed with stuff our country has been doing before, but I've never been so embarrassed to be an American. This year I skipped my usual trip overseas. I may not go again until Trump is out of office. People always want to talk politics with me when I go places (I suspect because I'm a lone traveler, and one who is willing to chat up a stranger over coffee or a drink). And I just can't face it right now.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 14, 2018 21:23:10 GMT -5
I know I've mocked Michael Cohen before, but have I ever mocked his credentials? He literally went to the law school ranked worst in the country. We're not talking a mediocre school, or the bottom quartile -- we're talking The. Worst. Only half its graduates pass the bar exam. The average LSAT percentile of the entering class is 15%. Only 27.4% of graduates from the class of 2015 obtained full-time, long-term, bar-passage-required employment 9 months after graduation. That's...not good. It is not the kind of law school you go to if you have any other possible choice (a better choice, given their employment statistics, would be to skip law school altogether if that's the only place you can get into.) To note -- you don't go to Thomas Cooley law school because it's cheap. Per Wikipedia, "the total cost of attendance (indicating the cost of tuition, fees, and living expenses) at Cooley for the 2013-2014 academic year [was] $63,772. Law School Transparency estimated the debt-financed cost of attendance for three years to be $258,232." That's about the cost of going to Yale, btw (per Wikipedia -- "The total cost of attendance (indicating the cost of tuition, fees, and living expenses) at Yale Law School for the 2015–2016 academic year is $78,326. The Law School Transparency estimated debt-financed cost of attendance (including cost of living) for three years [was] $289,879." -- which is a good bit more than it was when i went! Gaah, inflation! But at least if you go to Yale, you'll be able to pay back your debt.) It's the kind of law school that, frankly, should be shut down. And nothing I've seen or heard about Cohen leads me to think he's some extraordinary product who somehow ended up at a terrible school. His legal instincts just suck, from what I've seen -- his statement on Stormy Daniels is exhibit A. Frankly, he strikes me as being dumb as a rock. As a rule, wealthy businessmen do not hire guys who went to the worst law school in the country, especially when they live in a city teeming with extremely highly qualified lawyers. Cohen is the kind of guy you hire when no one else is willing to take on the work you want them to do.
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Post by michaelw on Feb 14, 2018 21:46:05 GMT -5
Legal or Illegal is most certainly the most important question in THEIR view. If "their" means Trump and his lawyer(s), I dunno. There seems to be a real disconnect between Trump and his legal team on a number of issues, and I don't think they're always on the same page with this stuff. Trump's statement that he would speak to Mueller under oath would obviously (IMO) be a terrible idea, if the goal is to make sure nothing illegal comes to light. And given Trump's history of legally questionable activities (Trump University, etc.), I really wouldn't give him much credit for being careful w/ legal matters. So the lawyers always end up w/ big messes to clean up, which is probably why he ends up w/ people like Cohen representing him.
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Post by Vince524 on Feb 14, 2018 21:53:50 GMT -5
I don't really care if he had the affair from a political POV. I'm not shrugging it off, but it's not like if I assume it's true then my opinion of Trump will sink lower.
The campaign finance stuff is different, although I'm a little confused about it. Is it really illegal to use private money to reach a settlement with a non political person with personally damaging information because of an election?
As far as the Clinton comparison, I don't know that cheating on your pregnant wife is worse than cheating on her with a young inter and lying under oath about it while orchestrating a character assignation.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 14, 2018 22:11:35 GMT -5
With a porn star.
And then bribing her to be quiet.
And word is, there are others (including prostitutes), and other bribes.
Yes. Yes, it is worse. A president issuing hush money, and to win an election -- yes, that is fucking appalling. It's past the infidelity issue or even the campaign finance issue, IMO. By the way, Trump has already lied about this. He's said that it never happened. He lies every day, generally a few times about big stuff and small stuff. He can't help himself. Really, truly -- you think Bill Clinton is anywhere in a league with him? Not.
ETA:
Bill's a dog and I'm not excusing him. But frankly? I don't think that blowjob was something they should have even been investigating. Certainly he should not have lied under oath, and yeah, that was icky, too. But that's actually somewhat mitigated for me because I don't think he ever should have had to answer that under oath to begin with. Don't get me wrong -- I think the whole blowjob thing was gross. But she wasn't underage, she was willing, and he didn't bribe her. It wasn't something that went to his fitness to hold office.
And if all Trump did was sleep with the porn star, I wouldn't think they should investigate that, either. It's icky, yes, but it's a personal kind of icky, not something Mueller should look into. BUT -- the payoff just before the election? Not to mention the fact that there's good reason to think he made other similar payoffs for the same reason? Oh, that is worthy of investigation.
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Post by prozyan on Feb 14, 2018 22:18:35 GMT -5
Maybe not quite in the same league, but I don't think Trump and Clinton are as far apart as you indicate.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 14, 2018 22:20:18 GMT -5
We'll have to agree to disagree.
They're both chronic philanderers. Therein the resemblance ends.
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