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Post by celawson on Aug 22, 2018 10:48:15 GMT -5
So a young woman goes on Twitter to proclaim her excitement about securing an internship at NASA. How do you think she words her Tweet?
1) Hey, everyone, I got an internship at NASA! 2) You all won't believe this, but I got that NASA internship! Thanks, NASA! 3) I can't wait to start working for NASA in my internship! 4) EVERYONE SHUT THE FUCK UP I GOT ACCEPTED FOR A NASA INTERNSHIP
number 4 is the correct answer
Then when Homer Hickam responds with a simple "language", (Homer Hickam, mind you), what do you think her response is?
1) OK, Mr. Hickam, sorry. 2) Oops, I just got a little excited. 3) It's been my life's dream, sorry I got carried away. 4) Suck my di*k and ba*ls I'm working at NASA (only no asterisks)
Yup, number 4 again.
And the best part -- Mr. Hickam replies "And I am on the National Space Council that oversees NASA."
She ended up losing her internship.
Hoo boy.
There's a fair amount more to the story. Read the first response here or the link below to see Mr. Hickam's blog post about it.
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Post by robeiae on Aug 22, 2018 10:55:01 GMT -5
Wow, that's a tough--but needed, imo--lesson.
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Post by Don on Aug 22, 2018 15:04:43 GMT -5
Another appropriate place for that "Think of it as evolution in action" quote. Maybe FedGov should require warning labels on keyboards??
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Post by Amadan on Aug 23, 2018 11:53:19 GMT -5
All kinds of Culture War angles there too (the intern is a furry, and trans, which got Homer Hickam berated for "policing" someone's speech, jeebus). So he (being a far more decent and forgiving fellow than I would be) reached out and got this intern another position. Personally, I think the lesson should have been left in place.
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Post by Don on Aug 23, 2018 13:35:22 GMT -5
All kinds of Culture War angles there too (the intern is a furry, and trans, which got Homer Hickam berated for "policing" someone's speech, jeebus). So he (being a far more decent and forgiving fellow than I would be) reached out and got this intern another position. Personally, I think the lesson should have been left in place. So once again, evolutionary processes are short-circuited by a power play. That "evolution vs. (un)intelligent design" thing has real legs.
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Post by Vince524 on Aug 25, 2018 22:17:08 GMT -5
I sort of have mixed feelings about this. I don't think there was a big issue with her original tweet. So she used a naughty word. I can see NASA talking to her, but it's not like she tagged them.
Her response to his language was obnoxious. No doubt.
But I'm happy she got her internship. We're talking about life changing moments here. She made a stupid mistake. We all make mistakes. Something like that to cost her for the rest of her life? I'm glad he reached out. If I were NASA, threatened her internship and make her publicly apologize, on Twitter.
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Post by Amadan on Aug 26, 2018 8:39:15 GMT -5
I sort of have mixed feelings about this. I don't think there was a big issue with her original tweet. So she used a naughty word. I can see NASA talking to her, but it's not like she tagged them.
Actually, NASA was tagged.
Telling a senior board member where you were just hired to "Suck your dick and balls" should result in consequences.
It's not like losing an internship means your life is ruined. But yes, it means you lost a great opportunity because you fucked up.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 26, 2018 9:23:23 GMT -5
It was stupid of her, yes.
But I honestly think it was not intended to be a rude "fuck you" as it was a tone thing that came off (quite predictably) horrendously on the internet. This is the way quite a few people josh with their friends, in fact. I read it and see exuberance and a failure to see that words that could have been said in person over beers in a bar in a particular tone of voice come off quite, quite differently in writing on the internet to strangers.
(To note, Naomi has no dick and balls. It's an expression (yes, a vulgar one). I genuinely think the intent was more akin to the way I use "damn your eyes!" with Haggis or Angie than to "Fuck you asshole!" )
I'm just saying -- in the silly thread on this forum, we routinely say things that would be absolutely horrible if they were intended seriously. This is actually the way a LOT of people interact with each other socially, without any malicious intent. It's just that most of us grownups know that it doesn't come off the same way if people don't know you, and it's best not to do it online.
I am actually okay with this person doing public penance and getting the internship (I would also have been okay with her losing the internship, fwiw). What I DO think is good, either way, is the publicity it's gotten -- a lot of people, especially young people, need to learn that words on the internet are not the same as words in a bar over beers.
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Post by Amadan on Aug 26, 2018 9:34:01 GMT -5
(To note, Naomi has no dick and balls.
Naomi is trans, so probably does, actually. But anyhow, maybe I am just aging into "kids these days" territory, but I think a twenty-something should have started learning at least the rudiments of professionalism. What's really been annoying me is not the brouhaha itself, but the reinforcement of the idea that legal adults are "just kids" and can't be expected to know better. When I was that age (oh god I'm really saying it aren't I?) I was no more mature than any other 20-something, but I'd still have thought twice about telling an Internet stranger to "Suck my dick and balls" after tagging my employer.
(Okay, I couldn't "tag" my employer like this at that time... but you know what I mean.)
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Post by Deleted on Aug 26, 2018 9:50:12 GMT -5
(To note, Naomi has no dick and balls.
Naomi is trans, so probably does, actually. But anyhow, maybe I am just aging into "kids these days" territory, but I think a twenty-something should have started learning at least the rudiments of professionalism. What's really been annoying me is not the brouhaha itself, but the reinforcement of the idea that legal adults are "just kids" and can't be expected to know better. When I was that age (oh god I'm really saying it aren't I?) I was no more mature than any other 20-something, but I'd still have thought twice about telling an Internet stranger to "Suck my dick and balls" after tagging my employer.
(Okay, I couldn't "tag" my employer like this at that time... but you know what I mean.)
No question. I don't disagree at all. Which is why if she lost the internship I wouldn't feel sorry for her. But I genuinely think (a) young people overall are maturing just a wee bit more slowly than they used to -- and yes, we should work on that, and (b) people generally have yet to evolve the way they act to technology. I see grown-ups doing dumb shit on the internet all the time. I myself have tweeted "what the fuck is wrong with you" at the POTUS under my real name before reflecting that it's really not very professional of me and I should express my opposition in more professional terms. To note, while "suck my cock and balls" is simply not something I'd ever say, I HAVE used some expressions I thought were obviously joking and had them be taken offensively. E.g., I'm rather fond of "hands off, she-devil! He's mine!" (or "hands off, he-devil, She's mine!") in situations where I and another person are both expressing admiration/agreement with someone else. Most of the time, people take that exactly as it is meant -- i.g., "Yes, I really like this person/statement/thing, too; we share this and therefore I feel some camaraderie with you and feel I can joke with you about our shared feeling in this way". But on occasion someone (usually someone other than the person I've directed the comment to) has taken it as my having a weird possessive sexual desire towards the person we're expressing admiration for, and that I am slurring the other person I see as stepping on my turf. I have therefore become cautious about using it, as I have with "Marry me!" (which, when I use it, is not actually intended as a proposal of marriage, but instead as the equivalent of "I heartily agree!") I didn't realize Naomi was trans. (So much huge news going on these days I really haven't closely followed this story beyond reading the email exchange and bare facts.) But whether she has a cock and balls or not, it could well be that this is the way her social circle talks to one another. She needs to learn and adapt, stat, to the fact that it's wildly unprofessional to talk that way outside your social circle. But fundamentally, I see her as acting thoughtlessly, unprofessionally, and unwisely rather than maliciously, so I can't get indignant that her lesson was limited to a public shaming. I just hope she's actually LEARNED the lesson.
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Post by Don on Aug 26, 2018 12:50:21 GMT -5
It's tough to be made an example of, but what her peers have learned is that they can be outrageous and insulting on the internet to gain their 15 minutes of fame, and if they plead mea culpa in a timely manner end up with no lasting consequences for that behavior. I don't see this takeback as beneficial for society as a whole, or particularly fair to those who fail to fail so spectacularly and don't get granted a public pardon.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 26, 2018 12:54:37 GMT -5
Perhaps it is that I am so upset, outraged, and saddened about so many things right now -- whatever the reason, at the moment, at least, I can elicit only a shrug and a head shake for this, either way.
That being the case, I'll bow out of the thread.
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Post by Vince524 on Aug 26, 2018 20:16:04 GMT -5
I sort of have mixed feelings about this. I don't think there was a big issue with her original tweet. So she used a naughty word. I can see NASA talking to her, but it's not like she tagged them.
Actually, NASA was tagged.
Telling a senior board member where you were just hired to "Suck your dick and balls" should result in consequences.
It's not like losing an internship means your life is ruined. But yes, it means you lost a great opportunity because you fucked up.
They were mentioned, were they tagged? It didn't look like an @ in the original tweet. I don't disagree, but lets keep a couple of things in mind. Not that it makes it okay, but she didn't realize she was talking to someone on the board. It was of course, very unprofessional. As far as ruined, there's only 1 NASA. Is it her dream to work for NASA? If so, the loss of this opportunity could equal the loss of a lifelong dream. I'm happy she got another chance. We should all get 2nd chances. BTW, and this is a serious question, what's a furry? I'm actually afraid to google it.
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Post by celawson on Aug 26, 2018 20:36:54 GMT -5
That language is just NOT NECESSARY. And it bugs me because it's so pervasive. I live across the street from a high school, and just hearing what comes out of kids' mouths as they walk along the wall next to our house is incredible. My husband and I never curse in front of the kids and rarely curse in life. And we've instructed our kids we don't want them saying those words or texting those words. It's an issue of respect and acting in a certain way that has a level of class. And they don't say them at home. But the other day my husband and I were watching my daughter play in the first varsity volleyball match of the season. She missed a hit, and she mouthed the word "f**k" so obviously. My husband and I turned to each other, mortified. He said "Well, at least only about 200 people saw her do that." Good God. They're inundated with that language in everything from movies to YouTube to music, and it becomes second nature. I hate it.
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Post by Don on Aug 27, 2018 5:04:36 GMT -5
BTW, and this is a serious question, what's a furry? I'm actually afraid to google it. Don't be scared, Vince. Here's what Google Dictionary says. "an enthusiast for animal characters with human characteristics, in particular a person who dresses up in costume as such a character or uses one as an avatar online." The only "scary" part is that sometimes furries have sex. In costume. While making animal sounds. And sometimes other people's sexual preferences make people nervous.
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