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Post by maxinquaye on Sept 11, 2018 13:51:54 GMT -5
One of the strangest things, at least to me, is the knee-jerk reaction many have to cops. To me, they're just municipal or county employees. They're neither better nor worse than most other people. Putting on a uniform does not elevate their essence to something nobler and higher. They're just county or municipal employees with a particular dress code.
Alarmingly, this knee-jerk reaction to cops allow them to get away with a lot of crappy behaviour. The "explanation" in this tragedy is just so out there that it smells to high heaven of after-the-fact construction. No doubt, solemn men and women will swear up and down that "this was how it happened". And, sadly, a jury will probably believe it.
Because, you know, "it was a black man that didn't follow the orders of someone with a badge" that intruded into his home and waved a gun about.
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Post by robeiae on Sept 11, 2018 14:01:36 GMT -5
A tragic event, to be sure. But the guy wasn't shot because he was a black man in his own house, he was shot because the officer in question made a horrible, idiotic, and criminal mistake.
I don't know that this incident is explanatory re Kaepernick. The black guy with his white grandmother seems far more on point, imo.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 11, 2018 14:16:56 GMT -5
Unless she was drunk, on drugs, or had some kind of yuuuge issue going on, I have trouble buying that she didn't know it was her apartment. If one of those things doesn't apply, then I'm betting she did in fact know him and this was murder. Whatever the case, of course he had no obligation to follow the orders of some stranger in his apartment.
Now. To be fair, I have more than once gotten off on wrong floor, and gone to the apartment just below mine. The hallways happen to be identical. That said, the absence of my distinctive doormat tips me off. (In this case, the guy has a bright red doormat.)
Let's say I'm drunk or there was no doormat. Let's say the door was unlocked AND she was oblivious to the bright red doormat. Wouldn't the first thing you'd do be to switch on a light? I've never lived anywhere where there wasn't a light right next to the door. No one wants to stagger into a dark room groping for a lamp. And once you switch on the light, don't you know right away you're in the wrong place?
So, what, she pulls her gun and gropes into the dark room, shooting when she hears a voice?
If he called out right away when she pushed open the door, I dunno, my own instinct would be to slam the door shut (with him inside and me outside), run to safety, and call for backup.
None of it makes sense.
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Post by robeiae on Sept 11, 2018 14:24:34 GMT -5
I think that if she knew him and purposefully murdered him, that will come out and would likely have nothing to do with race, but have some other personal angle (i.e. jilted lover).
But I do doubt her story, with regard to commands. I'm guessing she walked in, saw *someone* and just opened fire without a second thought. It's still possible that she was drunk, stoned, or even exhausted (made she'd just worked a double?), of course.
Any way you slice it, she should be charged with at least manslaughter and should end up in jail.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 11, 2018 14:36:34 GMT -5
I've worked many, many all-nighters and 80+ hour weeks. I know exhaustion. I still can't imagine this scenario. I can imagine it as far as getting off the elevator on the wrong floor and going to the wrong door, but everything after that...it doesn't add up.
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Post by robeiae on Sept 11, 2018 14:44:45 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Sept 11, 2018 15:08:25 GMT -5
Well, I mean, she lives alone, I gather. So why, if she thinks she's at her own apartment, would she be pounding on the door saying "Let me in. Let me in."? It sounds more like she knew she was at someone else's apartment.
I've been pretty drunk, but never so drunk that I forgot I lived alone.
ETA:
And then, if she's so surprised that someone opens the door -- well, that means he's right there in front of her, face to face. She can see him--he's not some dark shadowy figure inside her apartment. Then...she has time to get out her gun and shoot him (remember, she's got to be pretty stoned if she's forgotten she lives alone or is just randomly saying "let me in" at her empty apartment door, so I can't imagine she's going to be too smooth doing this). Meanwhile, he...what? Just stands there patiently waiting to be shot?
Oh, I think she knew him and that she went there on purpose.
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Post by robeiae on Sept 11, 2018 15:17:52 GMT -5
Geeze, you've got high standards for rationality. Drunk people talk all the time, even when there's no one there. Drunk, frustrated people can do the same.
But again, if she went there on purpose to kill him--which is possible, to be sure--don't you think that will come out? And if that's the case, the underlying issue would like be a personal one, no? Either way, this seems to be less about Kaepernick's issues, and more about a really bad--one way or another--cop.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 11, 2018 15:28:26 GMT -5
Oh, I agree there. I think it's going to be a personal issue. (If I were going to stab wildly in the dark, maybe they had a fling that didn't go well. Or maybe a neighbor dispute gone badly wrong.)
On the "it's going to come out" if they knew each other -- probably, yes. But ya know, I have some acquaintances here in New York, including in my building, that I don't have any other connections with. I was friends with a guy who used to live down the hall. But none of my friends/family ever met him or knew his name, and neither the guy nor I were friendly with our other neighbors at the time. Unless he told someone else about me, I'm trying to think who would be able to connect us, other than the obvious "well, they lived down the hall from each other" (which in an apartment building, can be meaningless--there are a lot of people who've lived in my building that I never knew). I'm not sure any of our other neighbors ever saw us hang out together. That's not hard to do in a NYC apartment building with people coming in and out at different hours, etc.
Just saying -- it's within the realm of possibility that they knew each other, but that no one would be able to verify it. (Especially if they had, say, a drunken hook-up or two, and that was the extent of it. Lots of people don't babble about those.)
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Post by prozyan on Sept 11, 2018 16:35:57 GMT -5
Guyger's story is pathetic at best. It gathers more holes with each detail she tries to add. Something doesn't add up.
That said, I don't think this has anything to do with what Kaepernick is protesting.
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Post by Vince524 on Sept 11, 2018 20:01:54 GMT -5
Do we know his door was unlocked? Wouldn't his apartment just look different from hers by a large degree? I've accidentally gone to the wrong car in the parking lot, but you realize pretty quickly it's the wrong car. (No, I've never gotten in.) Even in a car of the same make and model, there are small differences. She must have walked in, and gone for her gun and shot pretty damned fast if none of those details sank in.
Most cop shootings take place with the cop on duty, and in many cases there's the thought of having that split second to make a decision, one they wouldn't have to make if we didn't expect cops to do a dangerous job. That's not present here at all, and the fact that she's a cop seems pretty irrelevant in terms of culpability. Or it should be.
She should be judged the same as any other person with a carry, conceal permit would be.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 11, 2018 20:34:35 GMT -5
She should be judged the same as any other person with a carry, conceal permit would be. Absolutely. She wasn't acting as a cop here. She also wasn't acting as someone protecting her home -- it wasn't her home. And she had an option other than shoot -- she could have left and called for backup. Shooting into the dark is just...crazy...any way you square it. That's all assuming her story is true -- and yeah, it reeks to high heaven, especially with what the neighbors overheard, but even without that.
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Post by nighttimer on Sept 12, 2018 14:00:58 GMT -5
A tragic event, to be sure. But the guy wasn't shot because he was a black man in his own house, he was shot because the officer in question made a horrible, idiotic, and criminal mistake. I don't know that this incident is explanatory re Kaepernick. The black guy with his white grandmother seems far more on point, imo. Guyger's story is pathetic at best. It gathers more holes with each detail she tries to add. Something doesn't add up. That said, I don't think this has anything to do with what Kaepernick is protesting. Perhaps the shooting of Botham Jean by Amber Guyger has nothing to do with race, but on the other hand, this story is still developing and as more information comes out, the worse Guyer looks. However, while I don't totally concur with Maxinquaye about the Kapernick connection, there could be a connecting thread. Go back to what Kap said early on in his protest:
“I am not going to stand up to show pride in a flag for a country that oppresses black people and people of color. To me, this is bigger than football, and it would be selfish on my part to look the other way. There are bodies in the street and people getting paid leave and getting away with murder.” Well, hello there Officer Guyger!
How the hell can someone spin a tall tale like Guyger has that she parked her car on the wrong floor, went to the wrong apartment, tried to open the door with a key card and failing to do so found the door was ajar, entered into a completely dark room, saw a figure move, shouted a command and gunned that figure down and only after having did she step outside and realize she wasn't in her apartment at all. What kind of fucking fool tells that sort of bullshit story and what kind of fucking fool believes it? Did Guyger have a motive to shoot Jean? Depends on who you ask.
Maybe that's a White supremacist sign. Unless it's not.
Every picture tells a story. Often it takes a while before it becomes clear what the story really is.
Guyger shot and killed an innocent man in his own apartment and walked for three days before she was arrested and charged with manslaughter. Three days is a long time to craft a story. Now it's not a good story or even much of a plausible one, but Guyger is a cop and cops get the benefit of the doubt. Especially pretty White female cops over big scary Black men with strange names from foreign countries. Hey, she worked a 15-hr shift. She was plumb tuckered out. She made a mistake, but she didn't mean to shoot the guy, for cryin' out loud. Police work is a hard and dangerous gig, so get off her back and give Amber a break for chrissakes!
There's only one victim here and it ain't Officer Guyger. Does it make sense that she would kill Jean for being a noisy neighbor? Maybe not, but it makes more sense than her crazy-ass version of what went down that dark and fatal night. This case is all about race because there's no way if you flipped the script Jean isn't facing Texas justice for popping Guyger in her crib. Now try to tell me otherwise and I'll ask you what you've been smoking 'cause I see how crazy its made you and I don't want none of it.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 12, 2018 14:26:24 GMT -5
No question -- had Guyger been a black male and Botham Jean a white female, there is no WAY (1) that anyone would buy this story for half a second, (2) that Guyger would have remained free for three days.
So, yeah, while Guyger's motivation for killing may or may not have included racism, racism likely does factor into the slack she got cut on this -- along, no doubt, with the fact that she's a woman and a cop.
But the story simply reeks.
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Post by Vince524 on Sept 12, 2018 19:00:27 GMT -5
I keep thinking there's got to be more to this story.
I don't know that racism is going to be the motive, but the idea that she can get off at the wrong floor, go into the wrong apartment, and go all the way into the bedroom and not notice the decor was wrong, the tables and chairs were in the wrong places and different, the pictures on the walls were different, the walls might be a different color... whatever else. It's just mind-boggling.
I'm still not sure if I buy that the door was unlocked either. Who the hell doesn't lock their door?
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