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Post by prozyan on Feb 27, 2018 17:34:46 GMT -5
He is being crucified based on optics, nothing else. Anyone with any tactical training knows the last thing you do is rush in guns blazing when you don't know what the hell is going on. Sure, there are shots being fired....by how many gunmen? One? Two? A dozen? Do they have hostages? Explosives? Where are they located? Charging in like Rambo (Thank you Hollywood derangement) only ends up with more people dead. The only real options he had (unless he had eyes on a shooter) were to reconnoiter the situation to advise the backup that arrives or, again if he has eyes on students, exfiltrate said students and ensure their safety.
But blindly rush into a hostile situation? We had a term for those people: Dead idiots.
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Post by prozyan on Feb 26, 2018 10:58:37 GMT -5
The NRA is a foul, odious organization that has moved so far to the fringe it bears little resemblance to its original purpose.
It is a shame that in many eyes the NRA = gun owners or the NRA = gun rights proponents. The NRA membership is really small, somewhere in the neighborhood of 5 million.
Their voice and influence is very disproportionate to the numbers they represent and they are going to fuck it up for us good guys.
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Post by prozyan on Feb 25, 2018 12:08:19 GMT -5
What you don't want to talk about are solutions. Yep, there I am avoiding that whole conversation about solutions..... What have you contributed to this aside from your outrage? Your solutions? They seem to be absent.
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Post by prozyan on Feb 23, 2018 13:59:15 GMT -5
And so, of course, Trump goes to CPAC to lead cheers about locking up Hillary Clinton, to deride a war hero/brain cancer patient from his own party. And Trump says he loves veterans. I guess that doesn't extend to veteran war heroes who disagree with him.
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Post by prozyan on Feb 23, 2018 0:22:45 GMT -5
That is quite an impressive bit of reading into points I didn't make, Opty.
Congratulations.
First, I make no claims of knives being a larger threat than rifles or firearms in general. I simply cited a statistic to support that violence in general is a problem.
Second, my view is not nihilistic. I do think gun control is not the ultimate answer. Gun violence is a symptom of a larger problem within our culture. If holding that opinion makes me nihilistic in your view, so be it. But I don't recall ever stating we are fucked no matter what we do.
Gun ownership has been on the decline for about the past 40 years. The number of firearms is increasing, but it is like wealth...a smaller portion of the population are gathering an increasing proportion of the firearms. Back in the late 70s and early 80s, when a larger percentage of the population owned a firearm, these kinds of mass shootings were near unheard of. So what's changed? Guns or society? Well, gun manufacturing has been basically the same for the kart hundred years so I would say society has changed.
That is cultural and not just OMG GUNZ!
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Post by prozyan on Feb 22, 2018 22:22:55 GMT -5
Gun control or not, I still hold the problem is more cultural than anything.
Deaths by knife outnumber deaths by rifle by almost 5-1.
Bottom line is Americans seem to love killing each other for some reason.
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Post by prozyan on Feb 22, 2018 18:59:01 GMT -5
Its the soft target theory...the idea that if a criminal or someone with violence on their mind knows a weapon is in a household (or in the case of Trump's idea, teachers are armed) they will pick an easier target, one that isn't armed.
Mutually assured destruction, deterrence, etc.
I don't buy it one bit.
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Post by prozyan on Feb 22, 2018 14:10:11 GMT -5
A leg bone will stop a 9mm. A 5.56 fired from an AR-15 will literally disintegrate 3" of that same bone. Just turn it to dust.
An AR 15 is essentially an M16A2 without the burst fire option. It is a ridiculous weapon that has zero practical use outside competition shooting.
Editing to add:
I have been highly trained in weapons. I rated "expert" in both rifle and pistol each year I served in the Marines. I have difficulty hitting a target at 50 yards with a handgun. I can put a 5 shot grouping within a 3" circle at 1000 yards with an AR 15. Just something to think about.
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Post by prozyan on Feb 22, 2018 12:57:16 GMT -5
I too get Don's point.
I think the best law to add would be to charge those indirectly responsible. There are reports that Cruz broke at least three laws in obtaining his firearms. The people who supplied the firearms in those cases should be charged. There are reports someone in the FBI broke protocol. That person should be found and charged.
There are situations in which a bartender can be held responsible for the harm and damage caused by another person's DUI. I don't understand why shootings should be any different.
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Post by prozyan on Feb 21, 2018 9:45:01 GMT -5
It's almost like a midterm election with an unpopular President! There better be a "blue wave." I expect another 2010, or close to it. In these circumstances, anything less would be a failure, mostly of Dem leadership. I agree. If the Dems cannot make major gains in this climate....wow.
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Post by prozyan on Feb 20, 2018 11:55:41 GMT -5
Socialism funded by oil revenues coupled with government corruption. Worked great when oil was $100+ a barrel. Not so well when it wasn't.
That is, of course, a simplified version of the basic truth.
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Post by prozyan on Feb 20, 2018 3:18:33 GMT -5
I think it is fairly obvious that Russia did want Trump to be President, but not because they could control him, blackmail him, or any of that nonsense. I think it was for one simple reason and it is what Trump excels at as President...he is divisive.
Evidence that shows Russia sponsored both pro and anti Trump rallies tells me that aren't interested in a puppet but rather chaos and divisiveness in the US.
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Post by prozyan on Feb 19, 2018 16:24:34 GMT -5
I actually prefer him on the golf course and wish he'd spend more time there.
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Post by prozyan on Feb 17, 2018 16:06:23 GMT -5
Um, not exactly what I was addressing when I asked what the point of starting yet another mass murder thread where we retread the same tired old arguments we have in the last four or five such threads.
Yes, I don't have much faith in our leaders to do much of anything. I don't have faith in electing new people that will do much of anything that makes significant difference. The government's ability to prevent these types of events is very limited. Sensible gun control is about the best they can do, which doesn't even begin to address the underlying problem.
Sensible gun control? What's that? Personally, I see no need for any citizen to own a firearm that is NOT a pump action shotgun, bolt action hunting rifle, or a six shot revolver. When the only viable reasons for someone to own a high capacity, semi-automatic firearm are "Well, the 2nd amendment says I can" and "They are fun to shoot" it is time for a change. Yeah, they are fun to shoot. But so is heroin.
Gun control, however, only address the capability to inflict mass casualties easily. Perhaps that is a win, but I think the question must be asked: What makes someone want to grab a gun and commit mass murder? The cop-out answer of "because crazy" only gets you so far. The bottom line is American culture is saturated in violence. It is in our news media. Its in our music. It is in our movie and tv entertainment. It is in our video games. Is it really surprising that after being bathed in a near endless stream of violence that many American's idea of conflict resolution is continually escalating aggression and violence.
The news media damn near glorifies violence in its coverage. Violence and gang culture claim a large subset of the music industry. And think about the most popular TV shows in recent years....Breaking Bad, Sons of Anarchy, Game of Thrones, The End of the Fucking World....it goes on and on and on. And that is on us, the common folk, not politicians. We lap it up and ask for more. Then we all want to act shocked when violence begets violence.
I wish I had some bright ideas about how to address this underlying problem, but I don't. I think acknowledging we have a problem with the culture and not necessarily just with guns would be a start. I think talking to kids frankly about the violence they see and hear on a daily basis would be a start. But as Americans we seem, in general, to have this weird hangup that whenever a subject makes us uncomfortable our best solution is to push it into a corner and pretend it doesn't exist.
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Post by prozyan on Feb 16, 2018 20:08:24 GMT -5
I too thought about posting about this, but in the end I thought what's the point? I mean seriously....as NT has said several times previously if there was no action following Sandy Hook there won't be action after <insert random tragic mass death shooting>.
The charts Cass posted don't surprise me. The US has basically a 1-1 ration of citizen to gun ownership rate. There are 101 guns per every 100 citizens.
I don't want to retread old arguments about gun control, bans, etc. Those just end up being circular.
But I will say this young man had a well documented history of violence and threats, it seems everyone thought he was a potential danger, he posted a youtube video in which he claimed to be a professional school shooter and deputies even had been to his residence 39 freakin' times. Yet this young man was able to legally obtain an AR-15. No matter where you stand on gun bans, background checks, etc there is simply no way to deny this system is broke.
News stories are reporting the FBI dropped the ball...the FBI is pointing fingers at local authorities. Local authorities are pointing fingers at school officials. Trump is pointing the finger at everyone.
How about we investigate where the ball was dropped and go after that person or agency with the same vigor we go after "Russian interference" or "I did not have sexual relations with that woman". What a concept.
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