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Post by Deleted on Nov 10, 2018 8:36:11 GMT -5
Jesus, Florida. Really?!
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Post by robeiae on Nov 10, 2018 10:13:51 GMT -5
Well, in the above case it would not "Florida," so much as it would be the USPS I think. Which opens up a lot of questions about vote-by-mail, in general.
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Post by robeiae on Nov 10, 2018 12:34:17 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Nov 10, 2018 13:14:45 GMT -5
Do the laws on the books require that poll workers totally untrained in handwriting analysis toss almost certainly legit votes on the basis of subjective, amateur, almost certainly inaccurate calls on whether signatures match?
I think if they're going to toss votes based on a signature mismatch, they should have handwriting experts doing it. Voting fraud is rare. And signatures looking different over time and under different circumstances is common.
ETA:
I mean, we tacitly acknowledge that amateur signature matching is nonsense every time we sign a credit card receipt. No matter how huge the purchase, I've never had a clerk scrutinise the signature. and half the time you're now using a finger to make a squiggle on an electronic pad. Anyone EVER have a purchase declined because the signature on the back of the card looked different from the one on the receipt? For that matter, anyone ever had a clerk even compare the two?
If we're going to disenfranchise people on this basis, then bring in experts, who might at least be in a better position to determine if a signature came from the same person.
Also, presumably a person could not vote twice this way, at least not without some other person not voting. Come on, seriously, these are going to be 99.99% to 100% valid votes.
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Post by robeiae on Nov 10, 2018 13:27:09 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Nov 10, 2018 13:34:59 GMT -5
They strike me as absolutely asking for abuse by partisans looking to throw out votes.
We sign in NY, but I've never had them examine my signature. It seems more a way to ensure no one votes twice as Cassandra W, which IMO makes sense.
What happens if someone cannot sign--e.g., breaks their hand? Can they not vote?
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Post by robeiae on Nov 10, 2018 14:07:06 GMT -5
I don't know. We're just talking provisional ballots here, not all ballots. Here are some of the requirements, by State: www.ncsl.org/research/elections-and-campaigns/provisional-ballots.aspxThat seems incomplete, as it fails to note the signature requirement in Florida (though the link to the Florida statute does have that requirement). Other States do show a matching signature requirement, like California, Rhode Island, and Washington.
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Post by robeiae on Nov 10, 2018 14:14:07 GMT -5
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Post by robeiae on Nov 10, 2018 14:40:53 GMT -5
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Post by nighttimer on Nov 10, 2018 14:46:48 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Nov 10, 2018 19:58:49 GMT -5
By the way, if you haven't been keeping track, the blue wave is considerable stronger than it seemed the morning after the election. Granted, it's been more of a creeping flood than a wave.
I still keep hearing the "it was a mediocre night for Dems" thing, and I really don't get it
Sinema is up by 28,000 votes now; she's almost certainly got it in the bag.
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Post by celawson on Nov 10, 2018 21:51:06 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Nov 10, 2018 23:21:54 GMT -5
Jack Posobiec and the other Republican conspiracy theorists fascinate me. How do they think Democrats managed to create all these alleged fake ballots? Florida is a mess, obviously, but asserting that thousands of fake ballots were created with absolutely zero evidence that it happened is incredibly irresponsible. If they have evidence, let's see it. Otherwise, STFU. I think Jack is pretty appalling. (He helped promote pizzagate and the Seth Rich smear, among other nuttery.) But not as appalling as Rick Scott, who has a responsibility to ensure fairness and public confidence in the vote, and instead is doing his very best to undermine it. Doug Ducey in Arizona, on the other hand, is handling the situation as a governor should, and gets full marks from me. McSally gets points, too, for not getting her hands dirty with the conspiracy bullshit. She's doing what she should do--awaiting the final count. Oh, and let's not forget the Arizona Secretary of state, who put up a page on the website explaining why the vote is taking this much time. azsos.gov/electionsReally, very well done. Scott and other officials should be doing what Ducey is doing: ensuring the count is properly done and assuring the public that all will be fair and proper and their votes counted.
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Post by prozyan on Nov 11, 2018 2:53:18 GMT -5
McSally might as well concede.
But seriously, look at Arizona being a model of how close elections should be handled. And all this time I thought desert heat made you crazy.
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Post by robeiae on Nov 11, 2018 9:16:06 GMT -5
I'll take some issue with the idea that "Florida is a mess." What's a mess is Broward County, and to a lesser extent Palm Beach County. The rest of Florida's counties did what they were supposed to do, tabulated the votes, updated the State as required by law, and so forth. All of the incompetence in these counties (again, mostly Broward), while being acknowledged by a lot of people, is then more or less ignored, under the rubric of "we have count every vote." It's true, every vote should be counted... correctly. And Broward county has--unfortunately--not only made that impossible, but through its failings called into question the integrity of the system. I don't think anything nefarious has gone on, I really don't. But then, I'm not a hardcore partisan. I wouldn't stoop to the tactics that some such people would, so I can't absolutely say that there's no chance of this. Look at the bit I noted upthread, where invalid ballots were *mistakenly* mixed in with good ballots. Simple incompetence, probably, but also a good way to get in a few extra votes. Scott's initial complaint was that Broward wasn't following the law; he was right, and courts agreed. The excuse of "but this is interfering with the counting" is and was bullshit. Again, every other county manages to follow the rules. One can't simply ignore all of this in the moment, imo, as if it will be addressed after the election, since this isn't the first time it's happened (which doesn't speak well about Broward County voters, since they keep reelecting Snipes). That said, I don't disagree with the idea that Scott is not looking like a good governor in all of this. Really, he should have played his hand differently here, allowed Rubio to be the voice of the Repubs in all of this, since Rubio isn't in an actual contest. Scott is coming across as frantic and desperate. And that said, Nelson and his people aren't covering themselves in glory, either. His lawsuit asking the courts to force elections boards to ignore the law is out of place in the moment, even if one happens to think there's a problem there. That law is not new and has governed a ton of past races. It's only a problem now because it has the potential to cost Nelson some votes. Then there's stuff like this.
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