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Post by Deleted on Oct 5, 2018 12:44:32 GMT -5
I agree. If only Republican leadership gave two shits about optics. Yeah, there's that. I guess the silver lining is the midterms. If they have to drag one Senator in from his daughter's wedding and bring in the VP to shove Kavanaugh into office with 50 votes, I think it will especially hurt them. And in that light, Murkowski being a no is actually pretty important, IMO. The GOP can howl on how it's just those damn hating liberals, but at least one GOP senator said "yeah, we shouldn't do this." Gaah, I have to step away from my computer in a while! I NEED TO KNOW WHAT'S HAPPENING!
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Post by celawson on Oct 5, 2018 12:50:58 GMT -5
I have to say -- if it came down to Pence's vote being required to decide this, it would really be quite extraordinary. (And I think rotten optics for Republicans, pushing through an unpopular, controversial nominee for a lifetime spot on the Supreme Court only by the VP being a tie breaker -- especially as the Trump administration itself is under a cloud of controversies.) I respectfully disagree. I think this will energize GOP voters to not be complacent at midterms - sort of a "Phew, barely made it, I'd better vote to give us a better margin next time," And I think it will give average Repubs a little more fondness for their legislators who fought this battle but have been somewhat ineffectual in other areas.
I've got thoughtful conservatives on my Twitter feed, and I'm seeing sort of a newfound respect and excitement for people like Lindsey Graham recently. From my side of the aisle, the GOP was feeling bullied during this confirmation, and that's why more claws are coming out.
Also, I think the derail should be moved, but I would ask that you don't lock it, because I think it's fascinating to get a little closer to the heart of how politics and especially Trump bring out actual hatred in people. And I'd love to respond to a few things Christine and NT and Amadan have said but I don't want to derail anymore. Thank you.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 5, 2018 13:02:07 GMT -5
I do think GOP voters will be energized. I also think Dems will be energized. Lots of reasons for both to be up in arms for midterms. The question, to me, is the swing voters, those not solidly in one party's camp or the other. I think more people are now independents than in 2016 and earlier years. And a LOT is going on, with Kavanaugh, with Trump, etc. etc. How is all this playing with them? I think that's going to be the question. Will it make them stay home or come out, and for whom? I think Dems will take the House. The Senate -- that's going to depend, I think. Normally, I'd say Republicans would surely keep it, just because of the sheer number of seats Dems have to defend and win. Now -- I think it's in play. I guess time will tell. It surely will be more interesting than midterms typically are. I'll honor your request to keep the derail open and move it, c.e. (I find it extremely distracting and annoying here, at least partly because I'm very caught up in the Kavanaugh thing and there's quite a bit to discuss on it, IMO. But it can be its own thread.)
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Post by prozyan on Oct 5, 2018 13:02:22 GMT -5
I don't disagree that it would energize the right base. I just think it would energize the left much more.
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Post by nighttimer on Oct 5, 2018 14:04:50 GMT -5
(Also, please tell me that photo is real and not Photoshopped.) The toilet paper photo is real. They really did let him go up the gangplank with toilet paper on his shoe. That speaks volumes on what the Secret Service, all his aides, secretaries, assistants, flunkies and go-fer's think of Donald J. Trump. Not one single solidarity soul thought enough of this guy to spare the guy the embarrassment, tap on him on the shoulder and say, " Sir? You have something stuck on your shoe." They had to be extremely stoic and trying very very hard not to laugh out loud at this fool. I have to say -- if it came down to Pence's vote being required to decide this, it would really be quite extraordinary. (And I think rotten optics for Republicans, pushing through an unpopular, controversial nominee for a lifetime spot on the Supreme Court only by the VP being a tie breaker -- especially as the Trump administration itself is under a cloud of controversies.) i' I respectfully disagree. I think this will energize GOP voters to not be complacent at midterms - sort of a "Phew, barely made it, I'd better vote to give us a better margin next time," And I think it will give average Repubs a little more fondness for their legislators who fought this battle but have been somewhat ineffectual in other areas.
I've got thoughtful conservatives on my Twitter feed, and I'm seeing sort of a newfound respect and excitement for people like Lindsey Graham recently. From my side of the aisle, the GOP was feeling bullied during this confirmation, and that's why more claws are coming out.
Also, I think the derail should be moved, but I would ask that you don't lock it, because I think it's fascinating to get a little closer to the heart of how politics and especially Trump bring out actual hatred in people. And I'd love to respond to a few things Christine and NT and Amadan have said but I don't want to derail anymore. Thank you.
If the GOP felt bullied, how do you think Christine Blasey Ford felt as she was being questioned by a sex-crimes prosecutor? I'd like to think you have some sympathy for her pain as much as you do for Kavanaugh, but I haven't seen any sign of it. I'm also curious how many of those "thoughtful conservatives" who have a newfound respect and excitement for Graham's preposterous posturing have for Lisa Murkowski refusing to elevate the extremely unworthy Brent Kavanaugh to a lifetime position on the highest court in the land. As far as a little more fondness for their legislators, I have a considerable amount of fondness now for Heidi Heitkamp and Joe Donnalley. Their decision, along with Murkowski to buck her party to come out against Kavanaugh, may cost the two Dems their seats in the Senate, but now I'm motivated to open my wallet and throw some $$$ their way to save it. I doubt I'm the only "glad the Dems didn't just roll over and play dead" thoughtful liberal who feels that way. That's the kind of courage a gutless wonder like Jeff Fake is incapable of mustering. As usual Flake the Fake backs up his big talk with no action, but it's easy to understand. He simply doesn't have balls as big as Lisa Murkowski. Damn shame, really. However, I do look forward to the inevitable Jeff Fake in 2020 as the mainstream conservative alternative to Trump. With contemptuous ease, Trump will make Fake disappear like a Thanos Snap and he'll enjoy doing it. in 2017, Fake wrote a book entitled, " The Conscience of a Conservative: A Rejection of Destructive Politics and A Return to Principle." After this shoddy, sorry spectacle of cowardice, the sequel should be called "The Conscience of A Chickenshit: An Acceptance of Destructive Politics and A Retreat from Principle."
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Post by prozyan on Oct 5, 2018 14:34:36 GMT -5
Listening to Collins....I'll fall over dead of shock if she votes no.
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Post by prozyan on Oct 5, 2018 14:58:44 GMT -5
She will vote to confirm. Manchin has also indicated he will vote to confirm. 51 votes.
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Post by nighttimer on Oct 5, 2018 14:58:56 GMT -5
Listening to Collins....I'll fall over dead of shock if she votes no. You're safe and Kavanaugh will be at work at the Court next week. Lock thread.
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Post by celawson on Oct 5, 2018 15:44:57 GMT -5
I didn't feel like the prosecutor was bullying at all. I think Dr. Ford, as an intelligent and educated person, realized there is a need to determine truth in a proceeding such as this, and that questioning the details of her recollection of something from many years ago would be necessary. I felt badly for Dr. Ford, especially when she talked about the laughter at her expense during the incident. That got me. And I thought Trump's mocking of her the other day at the rally was far worse than anything the prosecutor did. Trump was a jerk. I do think accusations of sexual assault are a complex thing with the ability of great damage being done on both ends. This Atlantic article is a very thoughtful piece written by a sexual assault survivor who has done a lot of journalistic work on the topic. www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2018/10/brett-kavanaugh-and-problem-believesurvivors/572083/The Problem With #BelieveSurvivorsIt’s important to listen to those who come forward—and also to those accused.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 5, 2018 16:00:10 GMT -5
I've been in a meeting, and now on my way to meet a friend, but just catching up. Allow me to say I could more easily forgive Susan Collins's vote than her speech.
Also, Manchin is both useless and cowardly, but we knew that.
Now if you'll excuse me, I need a goddamn drink. I shall toast Murkowski and Heitcamp, whom I think genuinely did make a decision they found difficult for reasons I can respect.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 5, 2018 16:16:08 GMT -5
Just so y'all know, am drinking a Manhattan now, and have big and highly unusual plans to get tanked. Will be with lawyer friends. Much ranting will ensue when they get here.
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Post by markesq on Oct 5, 2018 16:20:02 GMT -5
Just so y'all know, am drinking a Manhattan now, and have big and highly unusual plans to get tanked. Will be with lawyer friends. Much ranting will ensue when they get here.
I sincerely wish I could join you.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 5, 2018 16:25:20 GMT -5
Just so y'all know, am drinking a Manhattan now, and have big and highly unusual plans to get tanked. Will be with lawyer friends. Much ranting will ensue when they get here.
I sincerely wish I could join you.
I wish you could, too. You'd like this set of friends a lot, I think, and we are planning a spur of the moment epic night. It's the only thing to do.
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Post by nighttimer on Oct 5, 2018 17:44:53 GMT -5
I've been in a meeting, and now on my way to meet a friend, but just catching up. Allow me to say I could more easily forgive Susan Collins's vote than her speech. Also, Manchin is both useless and cowardly, but we knew that. Now if you'll excuse me, I need a goddamn drink. I shall toast Murkowski and Heitcamp, whom I think genuinely did make a decision they found difficult for reasons I can respect. I don't need a drink. I need a LOT of goddamn drinks.
I'm on my way out to drink and eat pizza and then I will come home and not eat pizza, but I will still be drinking and perhaps firing up some hippie lettuce. Why not? It's the weekend and it's a three-day weekend for me and I'm entitled to blow off a little steam.
The uselessness of Joe Manchin has once again been pounded into my head like a red-hot nail. Jeff Fake and Joe Manchin really should hook up tonight and and toast their mutual impotence and irrelevance. In fact, I really wish Manchin would just cut the crap and join the Republicans. He thinks like them and he acts like them and he votes like them so why shouldn't he be like them. That lugnut can hump a rusty fork.
My plans are not to try to wash the bad taste out of my mouth, but to let it linger and savor it a while. I WANT to taste this bitterness. I knew all along if I was counting on Manchin, Collins, and Fake to show some fucking spine and do the right thing I was already screwed, blue and tattooed. I never doubted Brent Kavanaugh would ascend to the Supreme Court where he will rape and fuck over the American people in general, but people of color, working folks, labor unions, the environment, the separation of church and state, checks on executive power, but especially WOMEN.
Oh, what you got comin.' From the deep dark asshole of the earth, what you got comin'.
You think Brent is gonna forgive and forget? You think he's gonna show the proper judicial temperament? You think he's gonna EVOLVE? You got another think comin'.
What we saw when Bad Brent came out was an angry, whiny, self-pitying, lying little asshole who wasn't going to let a bunch of bimbos he put in his rearview mirror over 30 years ago stop him from getting to the Supreme Court. Oh hell to the naw. No fuckin' way. Bad Brent came out swinging and snarling and it was enough for weak little fucks like Jeff Fake to snivel and groan and try to cover his cowardly ass with an "official" FBI investigation that omitted dozens of interviewees as well as not even interviewing Judge Kavanaugh and Dr. Ford.
How in the hell is that complete? I imagine Suzie Collins, Jive-Ass Joe and Jeff Fake waltzed into the locked room where the FBI report awaited their perusal, plugged in their iPhones, killed 30 minutes to make it look good, and walked out whistling a happy tube secure in the knowledge they were now insulated and protected from the sheer hell they were about to unleash upon the American people.
Ah, fuck it. There's always bourbon.
Crap, where are my manners? Congratulations, celawson! Two years and two spanking new Supreme Court Justices! You got what you wanted. And everybody else is gonna get theirs too.
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Post by maxinquaye on Oct 5, 2018 18:28:51 GMT -5
Just so y'all know, am drinking a Manhattan now, and have big and highly unusual plans to get tanked. Will be with lawyer friends. Much ranting will ensue when they get here. If you get drunk enough, and mad enough, to book a one-way flight to this side of the Atlantic I can't promise saner politics, but at least there will be a bed and a bucket ready.
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