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Post by robeiae on Jan 14, 2021 12:06:47 GMT -5
New York, New York!
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Post by Optimus on Jan 14, 2021 12:23:29 GMT -5
So fucking dumb. The only process that should be involved is showing up and showing your ID.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 16, 2021 12:23:18 GMT -5
New to these boards.
I believe Trump’s response has been abysmal. The major problem was his “magical thinking” where he tried to convince himself (and everyone else) that simply saying it would go away would actually make it go away. He did not lead by example, which allowed this to get out of hand in places it absolutely didn’t need to. Someone said of South Dakota, given it’s population density, that you actually have to work hard to have this be an outbreak there... almost like you have to go out of your way to create such an outbreak there.
People were going to get sick and die from this at the start - once it got out of China it was way past too late. Cuomo tried to claim NY was ambushed (and, perhaps we were in the official decision sense), but Italy was closing down well before NY had its first case and Cuomo was arrogantly saying he wasn’t going to shut things down. I started working from home two weeks before the shutdown (the law firm where I work has been awesome throughout this).
I think much of the resurgence of the virus could’ve been avoided if people had actually paid attention to what happened in the spring. It was said at the time, ‘pay attention now, prepare now, because this will be coming your way.’
Viral spread is a social problem, and this is why Trump failed. He made it political. He made it about freedom. A virus doesn’t give two figs how free you are. And, people failed to understand how viruses work - that wearing a mask is less about personal protection and more about protecting others. I understand that people should be free to handle their health how they please, but nobody has the freedom to infect others with a potentially lethal virus. It boggles the mind how people can’t seem to grasp that simple concept.
I live in a neighborhood where mask use isn’t great. Either people don’t wear them, or they wear them just below their noses (which is pretty much the equivalent of not wearing one). By using every precaution, I managed to avoid getting sick in one of the worst areas for positivity in Manhattan... until Dec 31st (Happy New Year!!), when my girlfriend was diagnosed. We both wear masks and are very careful, but even in our apartment building, compliance isn’t great. She had a very mild case, and I ended up with two weeks of hell. Never needed to be hospitalized (which I was incredibly thankful for), but I have never experienced anything like this before in my life.
I will say that, for any mistakes it made in the city and state in the spring, the medical community in NYC has their stuff together. I receive daily calls from nurses asking about my condition, have had telephone/video access to doctors, answering my questions (and, most answer from their own personal experience of having had it). The city sent a care package with masks, sanitizer, and a pulse oximeter. I get a daily blood O2 check via text. I ended up going to the hospital once at the behest of one of the doctors, but my blood O2 didn’t warrant admission. I have not had to pay anything for any of this because my insurance has waived all COVID testing/treatment fees for now. Now, I’m on the mend, but I can’t imagine the pain/terror of someone who actually gets slammed by this. My experience was merely awful, terrifying, and anxiety-ridden.
This didn’t have to get this bad. If Trump has been more supportive of the science, had led by example with masks and social distancing, had administered the Relief money better... I feel like many more lives could have been saved.
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Post by Optimus on Jan 16, 2021 15:44:30 GMT -5
Welcome to the board! Agree with what you said above. Hubris is bad enough. Incompetence is even worse. But when a person, especially the so-called "LeAdEr Of ThE fReE wOrLd" (god, I hate the phrase sometimes) suffers from a mixture of both hubris and incompetence, it's a deadly combination. Literally, in this case. Two key decisions that I think are big examples of hubris+incompetence involved distribution of face masks: 1) Apparently a company in TX told the White House way back in January of 2020 that they could produce nearly 2 million face masks a week, and were ready to do so, but the govt never placed any orders or even responded (it seems). Granted, the company should've probably started producing them anyway and instead sold them to large healthcare companies. That was back when we could have taken steps to get ahead of the virus before it became a huge problem. It's also back when the WH was still in full denial mode. Just think of how many Trumpers might've worn masks if their messiah Trump had come out early and promoted them, and announced the deal with the TX company: www.vox.com/covid-19-coronavirus-us-response-trump/2020/5/10/21253689/covid-19-masks-trump-white-house-prestige-ameritech2) Several months later, in April, the US Postal Service announced a plan to distribute 650 million reusable masks to pretty much every mailbox and PO Box in the US. Basically, ensuring that every American had access to a mask. The WH stepped in and cancelled it. www.cnbc.com/2020/09/17/white-house-abandoned-plan-to-deliver-650-million-face-masks-across-us-report-says.htmlAs much as I can't stand Trump and think that he's human garbage, if he'd actually been proactive on COVID, and not actively blocked efforts to keep Americans safe(r), then I'm not sure he would've lost. His utter failure on COVID is likely what ultimately cost him the election.
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Post by robeiae on Jan 17, 2021 8:25:30 GMT -5
Welcome! These are my boards, I also run the CG Admin account which will pop up from time to time. Feel free to start threads or express basically any opinion on any topic. There's a place for most anything. We're a small community with only a a handful of active posters. But even that small group within an already small group is made up of a range of viewpoints. General board rules are under the "Welcome" notice that's at the top of every room. I need to update the "personal attack" thread, so you can ignore that. In fact, I'm going to do delete it right now. The "Welcome" thread really says everything, I think.
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Post by robeiae on Jan 17, 2021 9:10:45 GMT -5
So, New York is far from alone in the tossing of Covid vaccines: www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/thousands-covid-19-vaccines-wind-garbage-because-fed-state-guidelines-n1254364It seems to me that the vaccines should have just been sent out to hospitals--and specific places like retirement communities and long term care facilities--where doctors and nurses at these places would be free to make the calls on who gets vaccinated. Sure, there'd be some people taking advantage, but I think most doctors and nurses--especially at hospitals--can be trusted to do what's best here. And I have to say, more top down control from the Fed is not the answer. The piece says this later on: That suggests it was wrong for the calls to be made by local and state governments, that the federal government should be making them, but that's wrong-headed in the extreme. The feds should be distributing the vaccines to states as fast as the can and the states should then be distributing those vaccines where they are needed most and allowing front-line doctors and nurses to make all the decisions from that point on.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 17, 2021 10:34:31 GMT -5
It seems to me that the vaccines should have just been sent out to hospitals--and specific places like retirement communities and long term care facilities--where doctors and nurses at these places would be free to make the calls on who gets vaccinated. Sure, there'd be some people taking advantage, but I think most doctors and nurses--especially at hospitals--can be trusted to do what's best here. And I have to say, more top down control from the Fed is not the answer. The piece says this later on: That suggests it was wrong for the calls to be made by local and state governments, that the federal government should be making them, but that's wrong-headed in the extreme. The feds should be distributing the vaccines to states as fast as the can and the states should then be distributing those vaccines where they are needed most and allowing front-line doctors and nurses to make all the decisions from that point on. I think the larger problem is supply. You have a vaccine with a very short shelf-life, and you have people opting at the last moment not to show up and take it. In NY, appointments are now being scheduled 14 weeks out. The Federal Government needs to make use of the Defense Production Act to get more vaccine out there. NY’s allocation dropped by 50k, and the report is that other states are experiencing the same problem. I do agree that the ability to punt and give the dose to someone not currently “eligible” should be given to local medical professionals if the only other option is to toss the dose. Nothing will be perfect, and doses will go bad, but this does need some drastic rethinking.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 17, 2021 10:35:19 GMT -5
It seems to me that the vaccines should have just been sent out to hospitals--and specific places like retirement communities and long term care facilities--where doctors and nurses at these places would be free to make the calls on who gets vaccinated. Sure, there'd be some people taking advantage, but I think most doctors and nurses--especially at hospitals--can be trusted to do what's best here. And I have to say, more top down control from the Fed is not the answer. The piece says this later on: That suggests it was wrong for the calls to be made by local and state governments, that the federal government should be making them, but that's wrong-headed in the extreme. The feds should be distributing the vaccines to states as fast as the can and the states should then be distributing those vaccines where they are needed most and allowing front-line doctors and nurses to make all the decisions from that point on. I think the larger problem is supply. You have a vaccine with a very short shelf-life, and you have people opting at the last moment not to show up and take it. In NY, appointments are now being scheduled 14 weeks out. The Federal Government needs to make use of the Defense Production Act to get more vaccine out there. NY’s allocation dropped by 50k, and the report is that other states are experiencing the same problem. I do agree that the ability to punt and give the dose to someone not currently “eligible” should be given to local medical professionals if the only other option is to toss the dose. Nothing will be perfect, and doses will go bad, but this does need some drastic rethinking.
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Post by robeiae on Jan 19, 2021 15:00:08 GMT -5
Oh Cuomo, you cut up! The New York State government--and local governments, I guess--bear no responsibility (nor do any citizens), whatsoever, because they did everything absolutely right.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 19, 2021 16:32:20 GMT -5
No, mistakes were made, but that’s irrelevant to the damage caused by federal negligence. I wouldn’t be surprised to see other states join such a lawsuit - including some “red” states. Despite McConnell’s asinine comment that “Blue” states should simply be allowed to go bankrupt, many states “red” & “blue” have had serious financial hardships that can be tied to federal incompetence and the refusal of Congress to help.
It’s fallacious to argue that because some mistakes were made with a novel disease, the federal government’s intentional negligence with regard to providing necessary financial relief to states should just be allowed to continue.
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Post by robeiae on Jan 19, 2021 18:01:55 GMT -5
Disagree completely with the idea there was intentional negligence, especially with regard to "financial relief."
State who had financial woes before Covid and now have even worse financial woes shouldn't imagine that they're owed a bailout from the Feds. We've already spent so much money that we don't have, it's truly scary. And absolutely some of that's on Trump. Some of it's also on who came before, along with Congress, as well.
Man, I can't stand the current victim mindset that seems to be so pervasive these days as to be the norm. Something bad happens. blame someone, no matter what. Take 'em to court if they won't pay up.
New York and New Jersey have the highest death rates for Covid in the country. Their leaders fucked up royally, beginning with De Blasio telling people to go out to dinner when the pandemic started, moving right in to Cuomo's nursing home mistakes. That's all tragic, but it's not like De Blasio or Cuomo wanted people to die. They effed up, but then so did lots of other people at every level, down to everyday citizens. And that's partly because no one knew exactly what to do. Hell, the CDC couldn't make up its mind about masks, the WHO passed on faulty info in the beginning, and so on. Tragedies abound, but this idea that someone has to pay for them is just awful, imo. And the Federal Goverment is not a private entity; it's one thing for States to sue the Feds to take or not take an action, it's something else to sue them for cash, especially States who were deeply in debt before the pandemic (which of course includes New York).
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Post by Deleted on Jan 19, 2021 18:45:28 GMT -5
And how much, exactly, was NY in a state of financial woe Prior to COVID?
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Post by Optimus on Jan 19, 2021 19:07:48 GMT -5
And how much, exactly, was NY in a state of financial woe Prior to COVID? $61 billion in outstanding debt for fiscal year 2019-2020 (page 25): www.osc.state.ny.us/files/reports/finance/pdf/2020-financial-condition-report.pdfHowever, this is only roughly a $1.5 billion increase from 2018-2019, where the outstanding debt was $59.6 billion: www.osc.state.ny.us/files/reports/finance/pdf/2019-financial-condition-report.pdfCuomo also managed to create a $6.1 billion deficit in his budget for 2019, so the slight negative movement on the debt in 2020 is basically 100% his fault: www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-12-13/cuomo-runs-up-6-1-billion-n-y-deficit-despite-strong-economyCurrent projections for NY State's debt for fiscal year 2020-2021 show a debt of $57 billion (full official report will likely come out after March, when FY 2020 ends): www.budget.ny.gov/pubs/archive/fy21/exec/agencies/appropdata/DebtService.htmlSo, despite COVID and all of the revenue shortfalls it has caused, the debt actually decreased in 2020, suggesting (to me) that Cuomo's bullshit posturing and grandstanding is just that; bullshit posturing and grandstanding (possibly to lay the groundwork that he's a "strong, NY tough guy leader" for his eventual Presidential run). De Blasio is failing even worse, managing a roughly $106 billion debt for NYC for 2019-2020: comptroller.nyc.gov/wp-content/uploads/documents/Fiscal-Year-2019-Annual-Report-on-Capital-Debt-and-Obligations.pdfFrom page 5 of that report: "The City’s FY 2019 general debt-incurring power of $106.24 billion is projected to increase to $111.72 billion in FY 2020, $117.77 billion in FY 2021 and $123.54 billion by FY 2022."
De Blasio exceeded all expectations, yet again, because rather than the 2020 debt increasing to $111 billion, it skyrocketed to $125 billion: cbcny.org/research/nyc-debt-outstandingI doubt that's completely attibutable to COVID. More likely a toxic combination of COVID + the same managerial incompetence De Blasio has consistently shown his entire time in office.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 19, 2021 19:33:49 GMT -5
Okay, the $61 billion involves COVID, so... De Blasio needs to go - he's awful, yes. It is also a fact that NY pays MORE to the federal government than it receives in benefit... to the tune of 22 Billion in 2019 - this has been happening every year for decades. Florida, by comparison, received 51 Billion more than it paid to the federal government. Kentucky received 63 Billion more than it paid to the federal government. These "victim" states asking for federal help are carrying those other states - and you want to say this is bad financial management? Very easy to say when other states are pretty much on welfare. It's easy to not have a deficit when you're getting money hand over fist from the federal government. Tell ya what... get these other states off welfare... then there might be, maybe, room to cry about states playing "victims." rockinst.org/issue-areas/fiscal-analysis/balance-of-payments-portal/I still don't see why states shouldn't be receiving federal relief for COVID. It's an emergency. Clearly, states need the assistance. Cuomo isn't asking the federal government for 61 Billion, is he? Heck, just give NY what it’s overpaid to the federal government.
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Post by Optimus on Jan 20, 2021 0:27:32 GMT -5
Okay, no it doesn't because that fiscal year was 2019 (from April 2019 to March 2020), long before COVID showed any significant financial impact. You asked how much debt NY had before COVID, which is what I provided. You also seem to have missed where I added info from fiscal year 2020, which actually shows a slight, though non-significant, decrease in debt. NY started FY 2020 with a $10 billion budget deficit (again, pre-COVID). It wasn't until after they didn't get the additional federal aid that they wanted that they were somehow suddenly able to cut $10.1 billion from the budget. Amazing how easy it is to do that when they actually try. Uh...not sure who you're ranting at, but I never claimed that NY was acting like a "victim state." Never mentioned anything close to that. Perhaps that was one of Rob's claims? You asked for NY State's pre-COVID debt. That's what I gave, along with info on NYC for some deeper context. I don't really care about all the "something something victim state," because it's not my argument. I think NY's problems are partly due to them getting the shaft in terms of funding, but also partly to do with Cuomo's incompetence. Same as I said for NYC and de Blasio. Because Mitch McConnell is an evil scumbag who cares about no one but himself, and Trump is a petulant, shit-for-brains man baby who holds grudges like a middle school child.
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