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Post by CG Admin on Dec 23, 2016 9:08:56 GMT -5
The description of intent from my OP:
People are free to add some more examples that they come across in this regard. Frankly, Trump is--in general--a fair example of this, as well.
Amadan made a one-off comment. Granted, it was a bit of unfair generalization, but the obvious intent was to mock the guys in the story, first and foremost imo. Still, Chrissy took issue with it. Now, so has ohio49er. Fair enough. That's allowed. Their objections are not wrong. And I want them to feel free to make them.
The meta-discussion of the forum in this thread and others, itself? Cut it out. Or take it up with me or Cass in private. Or post something in the suggestion thread. Or leave. I don't want anyone to leave. But I also don't want to rehash stuff that I think I've made clear. This forum isn't a safe zone for anyone. I want competing opinions. I want arguments. Everyone nodding their heads and saying "good point," nothing being challenged or defended, that's boring. And it doesn't produce the benefits of a good argument, imo. Because yes, I do think there are benefits, apart from entertainment.
And have a happy and safe holiday season.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 23, 2016 9:18:01 GMT -5
Ohio, did you read my post and Rob's? That wasn't the purpose of the thread or the anecdote.
I submit that one would have to be wearing some pretty weird glasses to NOT see that the dude in the OP was acting like a total jackwagon. But it was NOT intended to "prove" anything other than that people act like idiots on social media.
As the OP said. As I clearly understood it. As Rob reiterated.
Feel free to add a post in the thread about a conservative doing a jackwagon thing and bragging about it on social media. Or a non-political example of someone doing it. There are plenty to be found.
As for jokes on the progressive left...
This ain't a safe zone for conservatives. Ask our one Trump voter, who regularly fields criticism of Trump and Trump supporters.
But it isn't a safe zone for liberals either.
Defend (or criticize) the liberal left or conservative right until you are blue in the face, and welcome. But if anyone is looking for us to suppress or spank views on either side, they'll be disappointed. You can find plenty of sites where they'll do that. This will not be one, not while I'm here. I will not be shutting up either liberals or conservatives for expressing views -- though I will (and have) argued with both.
The day this place becomes a safe space for any one side, I leave. I don't want the magical land of kumbaya.
ETA:
Sorry, CG. I started typing my screed before you stepped in. (Although it's saying pretty much the same thing.)
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Post by Vince524 on Dec 23, 2016 13:46:02 GMT -5
The description of intent from my OP: People are free to add some more examples that they come across in this regard. Frankly, Trump is--in general--a fair example of this, as well. Amadan made a one-off comment. Granted, it was a bit of unfair generalization, but the obvious intent was to mock the guys in the story, first and foremost imo. Still, Chrissy took issue with it. Now, so has ohio49er. Fair enough. That's allowed. Their objections are not wrong. And I want them to feel free to make them. The meta-discussion of the forum in this thread and others, itself? Cut it out. Or take it up with me or Cass in private. Or post something in the suggestion thread. Or leave. I don't want anyone to leave. But I also don't want to rehash stuff that I think I've made clear. This forum isn't a safe zone for anyone. I want competing opinions. I want arguments. Everyone nodding their heads and saying "good point," nothing being challenged or defended, that's boring. And it doesn't produce the benefits of a good argument, imo. Because yes, I do think there are benefits, apart from entertainment. And have a happy and safe holiday season. ~~Nods head~~ Good point. |
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Post by Vince524 on Dec 23, 2016 13:49:37 GMT -5
The guy was a dick, to be sure. And there's something more going on that someone could think this would be well received. Clearly he lives in a bubble.
The same thing happened over and over again in regards to Obama. People live in a little bubble where everyone hates them, then does something on social media that reaches beyond the bubble and therefor the bubble pops.
What were other conservatives to do then? Condemn the rhetoric and move on.
Same here.
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Post by Optimus on Dec 23, 2016 14:36:51 GMT -5
Where did you think I got it? Dammit! How about, a handful of incidents don't signify a trend. Anyhoo. Sorry if I overreacted. I'm not sure I have, based on not just this thread but others with it. You are all of course free to post as you wish regarding "liberals" and "progressives" and such, just as other sites are free to post as they wish regarding "conservatives" and "Trump supporters." I'm sure I've been guilty of viewing each as monolithic. I'm endeavoring not to do that. But that's for me, not for me to try to force on anyone else. Cheers to you guys and thanks for the responses. =) A couple of pearls don't make a necklace? I dunno, just trying to come up with new ones. I think I first heard the "The plural of 'anecdotes' is not 'data,'" from Richard Dawkins or Hitchens or somebody like that. I think originally it was "evidence" rather than "data." Not sure though. Also, I consider myself pretty liberal. I'm definitely not conservative or Republican. But, just like the Republican party used to be a little more sane and reasonable before they got infected and taken over by the authoritarianism of the Tea Party, I feel that the left has become infected by the malignant authoritarianism and stupidity of the Regressive Left - the ultra-leftist, ultra-SJW crowd who try to police language, thought, and who do not truly believe in freedom of speech. The part of the left who constantly whines about diversity, but don't seem to care anything about diversity of thought. They care more about feelings than ideas, claim to hate how society labels people but then identify themselves and others with laundry lists of ridiculous nonsense words (ex: "cis-gender, heteronormative, white male patriarchy"), they value group blame/guilt over individual responsibility, and they blame-shift all of life's problems on shadowy, fictitious bogeymen (ex: "cis-gender, heteronormative, white male patriarchy"). They would rather shut down speech they don't like than engage in an honest exchange of ideas. If you don't agree with them, then you are automatically dismissed and branded a racist, bigot, homophobe, islamophobe, misogynist, insert-brainless-insult-here. They care only about moral purity and they constantly fight with each other over who has more of it. The ultra-right has its "dog whistling" while the ultra-left has its "virtue signaling." It's sickening to me and it is a cancer of the left that needs to quickly be cut out because it seems to have metastisized over the past two years or so. Thankfully, I've seen some evidence lately that they've started to destroy themselves from the inside, which warms the cockles of my cold, dark, rational heart. Whew...okay...sorry. Went on a bit of a rant. But, Regressives sicken me, which is why I like the group over here. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 23, 2016 16:30:33 GMT -5
MOD NOTE:A reminder of one of our relatively few prime directives here: Optimus , I deleted your reference to another message board. Since you didn't attack anyone individually, use the name of the site, or drag in an old quarrel from the site, I didn't delete anything else. But for future reference, don't do it. We're very serious about this rule for a couple of reasons. For one, such references (especially disparaging ones) are at best confusing and at worst off-putting to new members who are not from a particular message board. Since we'd really like to have new people join us in the discussions, we want to be careful not to do this. For another, we want people from other message boards to feel comfortable and not conflicted about joining here. They won't feel that way if they see their favorite site being bashed here (even if it isn't by name, they may well recognize it, if they know you). I'm glad to discuss it further, if anyone wants to PM me. On a second MOD NOTE, this discussion is a derail, and it's one that's pretty far afield in intent, substance, and tone from the original thread. That said, I actually think there is a discussion in this derail that is worth having, although it may prove contentious. I'm going to talk with Rob (especially since he started this thread) to see if he feels the same, and if so, whether we should move it to a new thread. ETA: Until I have a chance to discuss it with Rob, I am not going to lock the thread or move the derail. But I will warn you all in the meantime: DO NOT MAKE THE DISCUSSION PERSONAL!
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Post by Deleted on Dec 24, 2016 11:19:06 GMT -5
This isn't social media, but it is someone behaving like a complete deranged jackwagon in public, and apparently under the delusion she is a persecuted heroine. And this one is a Trump supporter. There's a video at the link. (The article is clickbait-y as hell, but the incident is real and the video supports it.) Somewhere, someone is defending this woman on social media. we can be pretty sure of this. To note: I definitely agree with robo's observation that many people are oblivious to the fact they act like jackwagons, and they brag about their horrific behavior on social media. Some, alas, cheer them on. I also must say I think Amadan and Opty have a point that some (NOT all) on the left have gone a little batshit and lost perspective. I submit the guy in the OP is a good example. BUT -- I also must say that this is true of some (NOT all) on the right, and that the woman in the video at this post is a good example. My conclusion: Some people are jackwagons. They would be jackwagons no matter what their political affiliation. I have zero inclination to defend some jackass yelling at Ivanka Trump in front of her kids on an airplane or his husband bragging about it on social media. I have zero inclination to defend this woman screeching about how a Trump victory gives her some kind of exemption for paying for stuff. Shitty behavior is shitty behavior. I will now take a look for some social media bragging about shitty behavior to pull the thread back on track. Feel free to help me in this quixotic endeavor. |
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Post by Don on Dec 24, 2016 15:04:50 GMT -5
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Post by Optimus on Dec 24, 2016 15:09:34 GMT -5
How can a mall ban someone when they don't know the person's identity? Or, am I being too cynical by thinking that the "we're banning her for life!" response is mainly just a grab for positive PR?
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Post by Don on Dec 24, 2016 15:15:33 GMT -5
How can a mall ban someone when they don't know the person's identity? Or, am I being too cynical by thinking that the "we're banning her for life!" response is mainly just a grab for positive PR? I'm pretty sure the woman has been identified. It's the two customers she was yelling at that J.C. Penney wants to find. |
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Post by Optimus on Dec 24, 2016 15:50:52 GMT -5
Ohhh...sorry. I misread it.
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Post by Christine on Dec 24, 2016 16:57:17 GMT -5
My conclusion: Some people are jackwagons. They would be jackwagons no matter what their political affiliation. I agree with this conclusion. Jackwagon alert: I was in the grocery store today picking up a couple of last-minute items. Lines were crazy, but the customer service desk (two cashiers working/two lines) only had one person in one of the lines (but his transaction looked complicated, forms for a Western Union or something) and two ladies in the other line with just a couple of things. I got behind the two ladies, but stood off to the side a little bit because the aisle was very narrow and the entrance to the store was right there. Another lady came up with a cart and got behind the guy in the other line. The first lady in my line finished. The lady with the cart had apparently also noticed the guy's transaction was looking lengthy, so she pushed her cart into my line, behind the lady in front of me. (Now granted, I was off to the side, but I'm pretty sure I was not invisible.) I looked at her (though I was wearing sunglasses) and she purposely looked anywhere but in my direction, it was obvious. And I was like, okay, whatever. Not really mad, considered saying I was in line but thought, fuck it, it's Christmas. So there's cart lady, still avoiding looking at me, but also in the aisle, so she has to move her cart within a fraction of an inch behind the lady in line and turn it sideways (all while not looking in my direction) so she can keep her place but not block the pathway completely. The lady being helped finishes her purchase, turns to go, and runs smack into the cart she didn't know was there. And says "Oomph." And makes an exasperated sound. Not bad, just kind of like, "what the...?" And then moves out of the way of the cart and continues on. And I shit you not, cart lady says (loudly) to her back, " Well! Merry Christmas!" And gives the cashier and me (see, I knew she knew I was there) a look and a huff as if to say, "can you believe it? The nerve of some people!" That, my friends, is a jackwagon. No political affiliation required. |
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Post by Amadan on Dec 30, 2016 10:55:18 GMT -5
It always amazes me when schoolteachers are stupid enough to post shit like that. The Internet is not some newfangled thing - you'd think by now people would know that your Facebook and Twitter posts can get you fired.
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Post by Amadan on Jan 23, 2017 16:25:34 GMT -5
I assume folks have seen the latest viral video of the woman kicked off a plane for berating a Trump supporter. It's not clear to me from any of the reports how she knew he was a Trump supporter (was he wearing a MAGA hat?), but apparently there were a bunch of people on the flight who were returning home after the inauguration and she'd started haranguing people in the waiting area. This sort of thing seems to be becoming more common. I am sure sooner or later we'll get examples of a Trump supporter harassing a fellow passenger in an equally unpleasant manner, but lately it seems to be supposed liberals going off the deep end when forced to share space with the enemy. |
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Post by robeiae on Jan 23, 2017 18:01:14 GMT -5
Here's the guy's FB page that has the whole video on it: www.facebook.com/scott.koteskeyHe might be something of an ass, as well. Frankly, when people start recording stuff after an argument has started, I tend to question their motives. That said, she went into a "my husband's mother just died, have you no decency!" spiel when they told her to deplane. I think her husband look mortified the whole time. Jackwagon, indeed. |
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