|
Post by robeiae on Jan 18, 2017 7:53:12 GMT -5
thehill.com/homenews/administration/314663-obama-commutes-chelsea-mannings-sentenceMy thoughts: 1) I don't care all that much, really. It doesn't bother me that she got out early and it wouldn't have bothered me if she served the full sentence. Because she earned her punishment in full. 2) Her sentence was commuted, she wasn't pardoned. That's a big difference and if this had been the later, I think I'd feel differently. 3) She's not Snowden, not by a long shot. 4) Politically, I think it was a very shrewd move by Obama.
|
|
|
Post by Amadan on Jan 18, 2017 8:09:29 GMT -5
Manning should rot in prison. I do not approve of this move.
But Snowden is certainly worse.
|
|
|
Post by Don on Jan 18, 2017 9:51:54 GMT -5
Wonderful news.
|
|
|
Post by Amadan on Jan 18, 2017 12:29:23 GMT -5
So, serious question, Don - why? Is it really just that the government is bad, and so leaking classified information is always good, no matter what the content, because no information should be classified?
|
|
|
Post by Vince524 on Jan 18, 2017 12:52:09 GMT -5
Yeah, I'm not understanding why this is a good thing. I'm hearing a lot about how she was being housed with men because she was a he when he was convicted, but that seems like a separate matter to me.
|
|
|
Post by Amadan on Jan 18, 2017 12:58:25 GMT -5
Yeah, I'm not understanding why this is a good thing. I'm hearing a lot about how she was being housed with men because she was a he when he was convicted, but that seems like a separate matter to me. I'll be blunt and say I doubt Manning would have gotten nearly as much support, sympathy, and probably not a commuted sentence, if she'd stayed a he.
|
|
|
Post by Don on Jan 18, 2017 14:03:41 GMT -5
So, serious question, Don - why? Is it really just that the government is bad, and so leaking classified information is always good, no matter what the content, because no information should be classified? In a nutshell, that'll work. No reason to consider the subtleties of what was exposed, how a "presumed innocent" person was treated prior to trial and conviction, or the way she's been demonized and treated since her conviction. It's as black and white as calling her a traitor, so if it gives people comfort to think it's all about my anti-government stance, I guess that's good. Well, that, and I'm a big fan of Orwell's definition of journalism... or William Randolph Hearst's definition of news, whichever is the reality.
|
|
|
Post by Amadan on Jan 18, 2017 14:13:22 GMT -5
In a nutshell, that'll work. No reason to consider the subtleties of what was exposed, how a "presumed innocent" person was treated prior to trial and conviction, or the way she's been demonized and treated since her conviction. It's as black and white as calling her a traitor, so if it gives people comfort to think it's all about my anti-government stance, I guess that's good. Well, that, and I'm a big fan of Orwell's definition of journalism... or William Randolph Hearst's definition of news, whichever is the reality. I asked a serious question. I would like to know if you did consider the subtleties of what was exposed and how Manning was treated, and why you think what Manning did was good. Although mostly I am interested in the latter - if Manning has been mistreated post-arrest and conviction, that's not relevant to whether what Manning did in the first place was right.
|
|
|
Post by robeiae on Jan 18, 2017 14:17:22 GMT -5
Yeah, I'm not understanding why this is a good thing. I'm hearing a lot about how she was being housed with men because she was a he when he was convicted, but that seems like a separate matter to me. I'll be blunt and say I doubt Manning would have gotten nearly as much support, sympathy, and probably not a commuted sentence, if she'd stayed a he. That may very well be true. But even if it is, it doesn't make that sympathy and support wrong. She still got convicted. She still got a serious sentence (whether the sentence was "harsh," "too harsh," or what have you is subjective, but I don't think anyone would argue that it was "light"). She still went to prison. Allowing that her personal issues informed the commutation, my response would be "so what." That's pretty routine for commuted sentences. A pardon would--again--have been a very different proposition.
|
|
|
Commuted!
Jan 18, 2017 18:28:30 GMT -5
via mobile
Don likes this
Post by Christine on Jan 18, 2017 18:28:30 GMT -5
I'll be blunt and say I doubt Manning would have gotten nearly as much support, sympathy, and probably not a commuted sentence, if she'd stayed a he. If she'd stayed a he? This seems very unsympathetic to transgender people, I am compelled to say. :/
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2017 19:05:22 GMT -5
If I'm understanding Amadan correctly, what he meant was that if Manning were not transgender, people would likely not have given her so much sympathy and support. In other words, if she'd been cisgendered, not nearly as many people would have been clamoring for her release.
I tend to agree with that. While I think her sentence was too heavy (35 years?! lots of violent criminals get off with far less!), my own sympathy with her has much more to do with her being a trans woman in a male prison, which has led her to attempt suicide twice. I've no doubt prison sucks much more for her than for your typical inmate.
She's served seven years, she's clearly suffered, I doubt she'll offend again -- I am glad to see her sentence commuted. But certainly you can count me as one whose sympathy is affected by her being transgender.
I agree with Rob that this is a shrewd move on Obama's part.
|
|
|
Commuted!
Jan 18, 2017 19:10:31 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by Christine on Jan 18, 2017 19:10:31 GMT -5
If I'm understanding Amadan correctly, what he meant was that if Manning were not transgender, people would likely not have given her so much sympathy and support. In other words, if she'd been cisgendered, not nearly as many people would have been clamoring for her release. The proper way to express that sentiment would be as you did, yes? As opposed to "if she'd stayed a he."
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2017 19:20:29 GMT -5
We cannot all be as proper as I am.
|
|
|
Commuted!
Jan 18, 2017 19:25:50 GMT -5
via mobile
Don likes this
Post by Christine on Jan 18, 2017 19:25:50 GMT -5
I actually feel silly now for implying you are proper.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2017 19:34:50 GMT -5
As you should.
|
|