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Post by Amadan on Mar 10, 2017 11:45:48 GMT -5
It is certainly true that the "wage gap" often ignores a host of factors, preferring instead to go for simplistic arguments like "A woman doing the same job as a man gets paid 78% less, it's a rule!" When this is, in fact, rarely true in apples-to-apples situations, certainly not in government or corporate jobs with standard wage structures and EEO laws.
What you actually find is that women tend to (a) not go into the higher-paying fields; (b) when they do, they tend not to rise as far.
There are a host of socio-economic reasons for this, some of which likely involve sexism. Pretending sexism has no impact on women's earning power would be foolish. But it's annoying to see people reciting that "78 cents on the dollar" mantra as if employers just automatically deduct pay from women.
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Post by Vince524 on Mar 10, 2017 12:43:58 GMT -5
Ohio, I'm VERY skeptical of claims of gender wage gap, because I think many of those studies don't account for certain very important variables. For example, your study above that found wage gap between black and white docs did not take into consideration medical specialty. www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2016/06/08/the-racial-pay-gap-extends-even-to-doctors/?utm_term=.090534849c9cNow, let's take that same concern and look at women. I've posted an excerpt from an American Medical Association Wire article - Lo and behold, women also do not go into the highest paying specialties as much as men do: wire.ama-assn.org/education/how-medical-specialties-vary-genderFamily medicine and pediatrics are the two lowest paying medical specialties, and women do gravitate more to primary care. Anesthesiology and various surgical specialties are among the highest paid. Women do not gravitate to those in large numbers. Surgical residencies are hellish ways to live, for years at a time, during some of the prime child-bearing years for a woman. And many surgical careers, with all night surgeries and emergency call, are not conducive to a good family life. It is not surprising that many women would avoid those specialties. Plenty of my friends had this sort of conversation with me during those years. My opinion, supported by data, is that lifestyle choice accounts for the vast majority of wage gap issues, and I would accept that is true not only in medicine but in other careers as well. To be frank, if an institution was proven to have serious wage gap issues that were strictly gender or race discrimination, I would be glad to picket them. But there are legal ways to address those issues, are there not? This blanket "strike", which I can't even figure out what the reasons stated really mean, was an exercise in Marxist group think by a faction of the left which likes to be angry and doesn't appear to like very deep examination of the truth. It is certainly true that the "wage gap" often ignores a host of factors, preferring instead to go for simplistic arguments like "A woman doing the same job as a man gets paid 78% less, it's a rule!" When this is, in fact, rarely true in apples-to-apples situations, certainly not in government or corporate jobs with standard wage structures and EEO laws. What you actually find is that women tend to (a) not go into the higher-paying fields; (b) when they do, they tend not to rise as far. There are a host of socio-economic reasons for this, some of which likely involve sexism. Pretending sexism has no impact on women's earning power would be foolish. But it's annoying to see people reciting that "78 cents on the dollar" mantra as if employers just automatically deduct pay from women. The problem isn't that it doesn't exist at all, but there are different reasons why there's a pay gap, and while sexism may be one of them, there are others. There is no one size fits all, but that's what many want you to believe.
Many companies these days have unions, like mine. Salary isn't negotiated, it's set based on years with the company.
For there to be any gender bias, there has to be discretion on the part of the group that hires, or sets salary.
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Post by Optimus on Mar 10, 2017 12:56:47 GMT -5
As far as I'm concerned, people get to choose for themselves if they want to participate in these sorts of things. If there are consequences in that regard, there are consequences. Honestly though, the event had no impact on me, whatsoever. If women around here went on strike, I didn't notice. If they wore red in protest, I didn't notice. I didn't see much in the way of news coverage around here, either. But I did see that one of the participants in the event is a convicted Palestinian terrorist. That fact is being spun, however, with many sites calling her one of the organizers, but the piece I linked to does a good job of showing that this is unfounded. Still, it fairly notes that there has been no denunciations in this regard. And indeed, there is a deep-seated link here: ijr.com/2017/03/820121-a-day-without-a-woman-strike-has-alarming-anti-israel-partnerships-and-a-convicted-terrorist-as-a-leader/This seems to be an issue with the people behind the strike and the women's march in January; there are some really shady people behind both of these events who, in my perception, are using these movements to promote an agenda that is speciously positive but surreptitiously non-inclusive. For instance, one of the main original organizers behind the Women's March was Linda Sarsour (hers was the face all over the Obama-like posters), who is a race-baiting piece of garbage who is a Sharia Law apologist, but leftists love to fawn over: nytlive.nytimes.com/womenintheworld/2017/02/02/ayaan-hirsi-ali-says-controversial-womens-march-organizer-is-a-fake-feminist/
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Post by Don on Mar 10, 2017 13:40:54 GMT -5
The wage gap story fails at least two economic smell tests.
First, if women's wages are only 78% of men's for identical work, working conditions and output, why in the world would anybody be foolish enough to hire a man? I know that in my job as Director of Information Services, if I had consistently been hiring employees asking 28% more than other, equally-qualified individuals, both HR and the company president would have been on my ass.
Secondly, how are so many companies getting away with violating EEOC regs that they can depress one sex's wages by 22%? If the 78% factor is indeed true, isn't that a fine proof of government failure?
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Post by Optimus on Mar 10, 2017 14:37:04 GMT -5
The wage gap story fails at least two economic smell tests. First, if women's wages are only 78% of men's for identical work, working conditions and output, why in the world would anybody be foolish enough to hire a man? I know that in my job as Director of Information Services, if I had consistently been hiring employees asking 28% more than other, equally-qualified individuals, both HR and the company president would have been on my ass. Secondly, how are so many companies getting away with violating EEOC regs that they can depress one sex's wages by 22%? If the 78% factor is indeed true, isn't that a fine proof of government failure? Yes, my question is always, "Given that it's illegal, if wage discrimination is so prevalent, where are all the lawsuits?" There is an "earnings gap," of course. And there are many complex, mostly non-discriminatory, reasons why it exists. This is not in dispute. However, the main narrative behind the so-called "wage gap" (that the "gap" is 100% due to sexism) is a total myth. It's been debunked so many times that perpetuating it now is tantamount to lying.
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Post by robeiae on Mar 10, 2017 15:23:29 GMT -5
Carly Fiorina made less money at HP than Tim Cook made at Apple.
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Post by Optimus on Mar 10, 2017 16:15:46 GMT -5
Carly Fiorina made less money at HP than Tim Cook made at Apple. Obvious proof that we live in a horrible cis-gender, heteronormative, white-male patriarchy.
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Post by nighttimer on Mar 10, 2017 17:14:34 GMT -5
The wage gap story fails at least two economic smell tests. First, if women's wages are only 78% of men's for identical work, working conditions and output, why in the world would anybody be foolish enough to hire a man? I know that in my job as Director of Information Services, if I had consistently been hiring employees asking 28% more than other, equally-qualified individuals, both HR and the company president would have been on my ass. Secondly, how are so many companies getting away with violating EEOC regs that they can depress one sex's wages by 22%? If the 78% factor is indeed true, isn't that a fine proof of government failure? Yes, my question is always, "Given that it's illegal, if wage discrimination is so prevalent, where are all the lawsuits?" There is an "earnings gap," of course. And there are many complex, mostly non-discriminatory, reasons why it exists. This is not in dispute. However, the main narrative behind the so-called "wage gap" (that the "gap" is 100% due to sexism) is a total myth. It's been debunked so many times that perpetuating it now is tantamount to lying. You guys are creativing your own narrative and it's a pretty false one. If there isn't an abundance of lawsuits on gender-based pay discrimination, that doesn't mean the discrimination isn't prevelant. What it means is the legal threshold to prove the discrimination is a high one to clear.There was a LOT more to the protests than simply wage inequity, but since it IS real and nobody is arguing ALL of it is due to sexism, that's a charge which makes no sense.
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Post by robeiae on Mar 10, 2017 18:30:26 GMT -5
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Post by Amadan on Mar 11, 2017 9:13:07 GMT -5
Interesting hypothesis; insufficient sample size.
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Post by Vince524 on Mar 11, 2017 12:13:04 GMT -5
The official twitter account tweeted this back on 3-8-17
"Women birth half the population and we are half the population!" - Nelini Stamp from the Working Families Party #DayWithoutAWoman 1,804 replies 775 retweets 1,314 likes
Who the hell is birthing the other half?
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Post by Rolling Thunder on Mar 11, 2017 12:54:04 GMT -5
The birther movement?
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Post by robeiae on Mar 11, 2017 13:39:15 GMT -5
The official twitter account tweeted this back on 3-8-17 "Women birth half the population and we are half the population!" - Nelini Stamp from the Working Families Party #DayWithoutAWoman 1,804 replies 775 retweets 1,314 likes Who the hell is birthing the other half? Ahem:
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Post by Vince524 on Mar 11, 2017 13:50:39 GMT -5
missed that, sorry
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Post by Deleted on Mar 11, 2017 13:52:52 GMT -5
Robo, no one reads your posts.
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