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Post by Vince524 on May 7, 2017 14:35:46 GMT -5
I think it's much more likely, your own hypothetical parenting aside, that parents spend 90% of their efforts teaching their daughters to be safe, and 10% of their efforts teaching their boys what consent means. Historically, for sure, but hopefully the tide is turning. That said, I can't say how many times I've heard, "Johnny is nice boy, he would never do that" sort of crap. Well, no, he probably won't if you teach him.1 in 5, 1 in 6, 1 in 7.... yeah, it's pretty nitpicky, since even the lowest percentages are still way beyond the likelihood of people getting mugged, kidnapped, or stolen from, which was my point. I'm sorry you get labelled a victim-blamer. I didn't do that. I seem to be the stand-in for everyone who has ever insulted your self-defense classes. I'm not doing that. I would take a self-defense class in a heartbeat if I felt at this stage in my life I was under threat. I expressed an opinion on what we as a society should be focused on. You keep bringing up these allegations from other people who are not me. Here's the thing that's important. A person who has been sexually assaulted isn't likely to care what those percentages are. A guy who has been falsely accused also doesn't care what the percentages are for false allegations. Each case has to be handled individually, with sensitivity and fairness. I don't want to be the father who gets that call from his daughter that something horrible has happened to her. And I don't want to get the call that my foster son has been accused, and despite evidence, expelled and labelled a rapist. Basic rights need to be respected.
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Post by Christine on May 7, 2017 14:44:30 GMT -5
I agree with that. Sorry for the derail.
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Post by Vince524 on May 7, 2017 15:48:20 GMT -5
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Post by Optimus on May 7, 2017 23:17:35 GMT -5
1 in 5, 1 in 6, 1 in 7.... yeah, it's pretty nitpicky, since even the lowest percentages are still way beyond the likelihood of people getting mugged, kidnapped, or stolen from, which was my point. You have it backwards. Other than kidnapping, the likelihood of being a victim of those other crimes is way beyond the likelihood of being sexually assaulted or raped: douthat.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/08/22/how-rare-is-crime/?_r=0That isn't at all meant to imply that sexual assault, rape, or any of the other crimes are trivial. Just means that in a discussion where one is complaining about not being understood and that people are being nitpicky,, it doesn't help that person's case when they use debunked stats and/or otherwise just make numbers up to try to provide the false appearance of support for their claims.
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Post by Deleted on May 7, 2017 23:34:23 GMT -5
I've been the victim of more than one theft, as have most people I know. One of my friends was held up at gunpoint.
I know a few assault victims.
I know at least two rape victims, and a couple who were victims of a possible attempt. (I might include myself in that category. I'm pretty sure if I hadn't thrown up all over him, that one dude had some Sixteen Candles-esque plans for me. Best-timed (and aimed) spew ever.)
My elderly cousin was the victim of a carjacking. A friend was an identity theft victim. I don't think I know any murder victims.
Anyway, though. Theft has got to be the big one -- yeah, I'll buy that 99% of people at some point are victims of theft. Really, I can't think of many people I know in real life who have not been a victim, though that may reflect that many of my acquaintance live in large cities. Once, my house was broken into. My wallet has been stolen twice on the subway (Those were early days in my NYC career. I'm now as pickpocket-proof as you can be. If you want tips, I've got 'em.). And once my entire handbag was stolen from the back of a chair I was sitting in, with my friend looking on the entire time and not realizing what was happening. Professional thieves are stealthy bastards.
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Post by Vince524 on May 8, 2017 11:16:22 GMT -5
People have been known to victim blame with more crimes than rape. If you get mugged in a bad neighborhood, it's why were you there for example, or you didn't lock up your car? Or something along those lines. However none of them have the stigma of rape.
In addition, there's a huge difference between being called stupid for not paying attention on a crowded subway and then realizing your wallet is gone vs being called a slut because you went to a guys place, maybe even consented to sex, but said no when things didn't feel right and he wouldn't stop. All of that is valid and needs to be stopped at a cultural level.
I know more than one girl who has told me about a sexual assault. Some of the stories I've heard are heartbreaking. I'm not talking about people I've never met in person like you guys who I consider friends, I mean people I know IRL as they say.
I also knew a girl in high school who I've come to believe lied about it. For one, she bragged about it as if it were something to be proud about. 2nd off, she told me the story on more than 1 occasion, and the details not only changed, they grew. Not only in terms of what was done to her, but what her boyfriend (not the one she sais raped her) did to the guy. When they broke up, he told people he (The boyfriend) never did the things she sais he did because it would amount to torture and murder and mutilation.
Can I prove she lied? No. But I think I would have heard about a body washing up on shore with his junk cut off and stuffed down his throat. (That was the last, more barbaric version of her story. At first, he BF had just beat the guy up.)
I won't go into the stories of rape that I believe or even know happened, as they're not mine to tell and even without names, I don't want to relay it.
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Post by Vince524 on May 9, 2017 6:13:31 GMT -5
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Post by Vince524 on May 9, 2017 6:17:46 GMT -5
The case may get settled out of court as there's an audio recording of the proceeding in which he was expelled, and that's next.
They also were hit for dumping several inches of documents on him 2 and a half days before the hearing, and only allowing him to take notes, not even have copies.
The article mentions Columbia who has threatened students, both accusers and accuses with taking notes during procedures.
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Post by Vince524 on May 9, 2017 12:30:52 GMT -5
If I'm reading the lawsuit correctly, and I may not be, there was no rape alleged, but rather dating violence which stems from the John Doe having depression issues and talking about considering suicide.
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Post by Vince524 on May 10, 2017 11:56:14 GMT -5
I don't know if anyone is still reading this thread, but there was an update to one of the cases I referenced. www.thecollegefix.com/post/32542/Basically, ignoring the video evidence, allowing the accuser to have a lawyer who spoke at the hearing, consult with the accuser before she answered any question and submit questions on the spot while the accused was limited to having his mother sit silently behind him, not being allowed to even pass a note or whisper in his ear, ignoring the police report, limiting the witnesses to those who were unqualified as long as they supported the accuser, and ignoring it's own policy was enough to let the suit go forward that there was gender bias, so they settled. It says that they're each responsible for their own litigation fees, but if there's a secret settlement, I suppose that could mean John Doe has to pay his lawyer, while the college has to pay him, which the college has insurance to cover him. Otherwise, the student still got screwed.
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Post by Vince524 on May 17, 2017 11:57:41 GMT -5
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Post by Vince524 on May 23, 2017 12:06:28 GMT -5
alleghenycampus.com/14433/news/allegheny-college-sued-by-student-expelled-for-sexual-misconduct/Another case, which I'm told by a professor that follows these has been settled. The settlement came once the college was made aware that they would have to share their records of the process they considered fair. That fair process including keeping the details of the allegation away from the student, allowing him with only a few days before the hearing to review the case, but not have a copy and threatening to destroy his notes if they were too detailed. They also refused to interview 2 witnesses, the accusers roommate who would say the accuser was lying, and an RA would could verify that despite the accusers claim of being held against her will, had left the room 2 times during the night to return on her own. Looks like it only took 2 years away from him, and lord knows how much in legal fees, plus the emotional toll.
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