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Post by robeiae on Jun 30, 2017 12:12:59 GMT -5
Again, I agree with Amadan. I saw my own "What the fuck is wrong with you?" to be rather in the spirit of this rebuke... thecollinegate.boards.net/post/7260/quote/395Trump was behaving incredibly badly. I called him out on it. Having given it some serious thought overnight, I reject, thoroughly, any implication that my behavior was in some way encouraging his -- any more than CG Admin's was encouraging the bickering and personal comments in that thread. I will also note -- as Amadan notes, there have been some version of talking heads, writers, and entertainers doing what Mika did (and for that matter, what Kathy Griffin did) for about as long as there have been politics. It comes with the game, particularly with a society that values a free press. It is part of the criticism levied on the ruling class, that comes with fame and power. Having a president who out-vulgars and out-slanders such people? Yeah, that should not come with the game. Btw, Mika denies she had a face lift. Well first, CG Admin is the dictator, talking to the peons. You'd be more on point if you cited someone saying "WTF is wrong with you" to CG Admin. In fact, there are plenty of boards where such an act would result in immediate banning (this isn't one of them). Regardless, a messageboard is a closed system, as compared to general social media. They're not the same thing at all, imo. As to all of this being nothing new under the sun, I agree. It's not a new phenomenon at all. But you're wrong, I think, about awareness. Because the volume is something new, imo. Prior to social media, prior to 24 hour news, prior to news websites, what was there? A few TV magazine shows, evening news, newspapers, and what? We still have all of those things as well, but taken as a whole, all of them are dwarfed by any one of the items in my first list. Moreover, public responses on those first three are close to instantaneous now. Look at Trump's tweet; it was what, eight minutes after Mika's comment? And how many millions upon millions saw it--and reacted--in just the first hour after he put it out there? How long was it before news sites and shows were talking about it? Ten or so years ago, I'd have been firmly in the "same as it ever was" camp. And that was after the advent of the internet and cable news. But it's clear to me that such is no longer a tenable position. Hell, Trump's success is proof positive of this, imo.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 30, 2017 12:29:34 GMT -5
Again, I agree with Amadan. I saw my own "What the fuck is wrong with you?" to be rather in the spirit of this rebuke... thecollinegate.boards.net/post/7260/quote/395Trump was behaving incredibly badly. I called him out on it. Having given it some serious thought overnight, I reject, thoroughly, any implication that my behavior was in some way encouraging his -- any more than CG Admin's was encouraging the bickering and personal comments in that thread. I will also note -- as Amadan notes, there have been some version of talking heads, writers, and entertainers doing what Mika did (and for that matter, what Kathy Griffin did) for about as long as there have been politics. It comes with the game, particularly with a society that values a free press. It is part of the criticism levied on the ruling class, that comes with fame and power. Having a president who out-vulgars and out-slanders such people? Yeah, that should not come with the game. Btw, Mika denies she had a face lift. Well first, CG Admin is the dictator, talking to the peons. You'd be more on point if you cited someone saying "WTF is wrong with you" to CG Admin. In fact, there are plenty of boards where such an act would result in immediate banning (this isn't one of them). Regardless, a messageboard is a closed system, as compared to general social media. They're not the same thing at all, imo. um... yeah, no. You are confuzzling the grounds of your objection to my remark. You asserted that I was participating in (hence encouraging) a climate of incivility and rudeness by my rebuke to Trump, not that I was getting uppity with a leader. If I was doing the former with my "WTF is wrong with you?", so too was CG Admin. As for the getting uppity with a leader thing, you are not really going to assert that was your objection to my Tweet, are you? -- that I had no right to speak so to my leader, because he was my ruler (as opposed to just another citizen)? That Trump can speak to us peons as he chooses, but we had best tow the line? I am certain that you are not saying that. You are saying that citizens, private and public, should all be civil to one another lest we contribute to the culture of incivility. And that's all very nice, and I don't disagree that would be ideal in an ideal world, and indeed, I do try to restrain my own incivility. But I think there is just an enormous difference between a private citizen, comedian, or talking head being horrible, and the president. Even Hannity, as much as I abominate him -- he does not have the same role as the president, and his bad behavior is much less consequential. And even taking that aside, there's also just a huge difference between "WTF is wrong with you" as a rebuke to incredibly poor behavior, and (falsely, no less) asserting that a political critic begged you for an interview and you rejected her because her face was bleeding badly from a sub-par facelift.
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Post by robeiae on Jun 30, 2017 12:42:40 GMT -5
um... yeah, no. You are confuzzling the grounds of your objection to my remark You asserted that I was participating in (hence encouraging) a climate of incivility and rudeness by my rebuke to Trump, not that I was getting uppity with a leader. If I was doing the former with my "WTF is wrong with you?", so too was CG Admin. And as for the getting uppity with a leader thing, you are not really going to assert that was your objection to my Tweet, are you -- that I had no right to speak so to my leader, because he was my ruler (as opposed to just another citizen)? That Trump can speak to us peons as he chooses, but we had best tow the line? If you look back, this is what I said in reference to your remark (which again simply served as an easy way to make my point): Regardless, there are people saying such things--and worse--to Trump on twitter, specifically tweeting these things to Trump. As awful as he is, he's still the POTUS. And saying such things isn't accomplishing anything. It is--imo, anyway--only empowering Trump and his defenders. I think there's three obvious things I'm suggesting: 1) People should try to refrain from being rude to other people on twitter (which includes Trump). 2) As awful as Trump is, he's POTUS and the office deserves respect, if not the man. 3) And with regard to Trump, playing his game only serves to encourage him--and his more obnoxious supporters--to continue; i.e. it's not helping. Trump and his supporters, of course, are also not helping. So if you wanna say "fuck it, I'll stop when they stop," fair enough. But imo, that's the road that is more likely to lead to another four years of Trump, which I certainly don't want, and a continuation of Trump's gutter politics that will spill down into other levels of politics.
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Post by nighttimer on Jun 30, 2017 12:43:32 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Jun 30, 2017 13:18:57 GMT -5
I think Mueller should add the Enquirer blackmail allegation to the list of things they're investigating. Not kidding -- I do not see it as a minor allegation, and Mika and Joe, though they have their flaws, have more credibility than Trump IMO (not that I've seen Trump deny this yet...)
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Post by nighttimer on Jun 30, 2017 14:42:33 GMT -5
I think Mueller should add the Enquirer blackmail allegation to the list of things they're investigating. Not kidding -- I do not see it as a minor allegation, and Mika and Joe, though they have their flaws, have more credibility than Trump IMO (not that I've seen Trump deny this yet...) And now enter, Jared Kushner:Everything about this presidency drips with malevolence, stupidity and pettiness. Respect the presidency even if you don't respect the president? Not an ice cube's chance in Hell. Not when 45 doesn't respect the presidency.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 30, 2017 15:03:14 GMT -5
I have to admit, though I've long been a proponent of "respect the office", I find this harder and harder to do.
I do strive to rein myself in from personal attacks and insults on people I'm talking to when we're disagreeing on issues, and generally I think I succeed.
But it is difficult to find any words to accurately describe Trump's behavior that are not insulting, and it is precisely the fact that he holds that office that makes it so very egregious.
I held out benefit of the doubt on Jared and Ivanka, and had some hopes they'd help curb Trump's worst tendencies and counter Bannon and Miller. That hope is pretty much in tatters now. I wish it weren't. And I wish it we're not the case that the National Enquirer story is so very plausible.
My favorite tweet yesterday -- I can't recall who made it, was (paraphrased) "I never thought I'd live to say it's beneath me to respond to the President of the United States." That's pretty much how I felt, too, and yet another reason I deleted my tweet.
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Post by Christine on Jun 30, 2017 16:36:43 GMT -5
The idea of respecting the office, if not the man, has to do with respecting the office even if you disagree with what the man in it is doing, policy-wise. That's the way I always saw it anyway.
We are soooo beyond that.
Like the difference between (1) respecting your parents even when they've unfairly grounded you, they disagree with your opinion on the amount of time you should be allowed to spend playing video games, and the only place you ever go on vacation is a campground; and (2) respecting your parents even though you had to walk ten miles to get home from school because they forgot to pick you up, there's no food in the refrigerator, the electricity got shut off again, and they're smoking crack in the bathroom.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 30, 2017 17:48:29 GMT -5
And they beat you.
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Post by Christine on Jun 30, 2017 18:17:43 GMT -5
And they bribe and/or threaten you when social services comes knocking... because even though they don't really give a shit whether you stay or go, it's all about their reputation.
I mean, what if everyone thought dad had a small penis was a bad parent?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 30, 2017 18:32:39 GMT -5
and they make fun of your unibrow and then after you pluck it they tell everyone you used to have a unibrow and jeer at you for being vain and tell everyone your face was bleeding and they won't give you an allowance and they borrow all your babysitting money but never pay it back and they never buy girl scout cookies when you sell them and one day they told you your puppy ran away but from the way they said it you're pretty sure it didn't really run away because eta:
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Post by Christine on Jun 30, 2017 18:59:12 GMT -5
Lol, that's not what I said at all. I didn't "tut-tut" her. She made a nasty, personal comment by implying Trump has a small penis. She knew exactly what she was saying, no? And fair enough, a good chunk of her audience probably thought it was an hilarious comment, one that Trump richly deserved. But it is what it is. So, I've been meditating on this for a while, and here's where I think the problems are: (1) That referring to small hands is a "nasty" comment, because of course she is referring to Trump's dick size and of course, implying a man's penis is small is insulting because it's so unmanly to have a less than gigantic penis (seriously I am so sick of the idea that this is the INSULT OF ALL INSULTS AGAINST THE MENZ.) But also, (2) That hand size indicates penis size. It's a myth. I know from personal experience, but also there is science and stuff. I don't feel like linking something so stupid, but ya'll can google it if you need to, and Trump should have by now and realized that, actually, this is dumb, unfounded, and he can justifiably ignore it on that basis alone. But apparently he can't, even now, as the President of the United States. Which leads me to my third most relevant point, (3) Trump started this whole stupid conversation thirty years ago and still hasn't, won't, CANNOT let it go. Way back when, someone called him a short-fingered vulgarian. It would be ancient history except for the fact that Trump has never let it go, because he's so ridiculously, unfathomably concerned about the public's perception of the size of his dick. (That's John Oliver in February 2016 - that particular topic starts at 6:00 but I recommend the whole episode.) ETA: the truth is, Mika was not mocking Trump for the perceived size of his penis. She was mocking his narcissism, his utter obsession with the perception of the size of his penis. She was calling a spade a spade. Same as Trump puts himself on a fake Time cover, he insists his hands are YUUUGE. This is what matters to him. It's pathetic.
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Post by Christine on Jun 30, 2017 19:18:45 GMT -5
and they make fun of your unibrow and then after you pluck it they tell everyone you used to have a unibrow and jeer at you for being vain and tell everyone your face was bleeding and they won't give you an allowance and they borrow all your babysitting money but never pay it back and they never buy girl scout cookies when you sell them and one day they told you your puppy ran away but from the way they said it you're pretty sure it didn't really run away because eta: But yanno, they're you're parents so, you should respect your... *gags*
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Post by robeiae on Jun 30, 2017 19:21:37 GMT -5
She was making a joke at his expense: that he has small hands so he therefore has a small penis. And yes, it's all rooted in Trump's own character, his narcissism, his inability to take a joke or accept any sort of criticism.
This has nothing to do with jokes about small penises being "the insult of all insults." The fact that the link is a myth is inconsequential.
Again, she knew what she was saying. Everyone listening knew what she was saying. To whit: "President Trump has a tiny penis! Ha-ha!"
If you're good with that, you're good with that. It still is what it is (and it still isn't justification for Trump's response).
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Post by Christine on Jun 30, 2017 19:32:54 GMT -5
If it was purely a ha-ha moment (which I doubt -- it was said in connection with the news of the fake Time cover; there's a theme here), it was only fodder because of Trump's own obsession with what people think. About his dick.
Just ponder that for a second about the President of the United States.
Do you respect that? Do you respect "President" Trump?
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