|
Post by Christine on Jul 16, 2017 19:17:10 GMT -5
Hot dog vendor, Florida accountant, tomato, tomahto.
|
|
|
Post by Christine on Jul 16, 2017 19:34:05 GMT -5
Yes, and this (along with not wanting to be perceived as less than professional and capable) is why I continue to dress up for clients. Because I care what they think. I care a lot, but that doesn't seem to stop me from wondering why we all keep going along with arbitrary things. Well, some arbitrary things are pointless. Like, I hate ties. They're obsolete and uncomfortable and continue to exist as a relic that serves only to signify formality. I'd be happy if ties stopped being part of formal men's wear. Unfortunately, I think they're in the same category as professional attire. I don't see ties going away any sooner than professional attire in general. A male lawyer in court with an open shirt collar? I agree with you that ties are pointless and appreciate that you hate them, but I don't think that matters, because it's all about perception. Professional men will keep wearing ties because people expect them to. People will keep expecting ties because professional men keep wearing them. Swearing in front of people you don't know well enough to swear in front of could be offensive to them (and would certainly be offensive to grandma). I don't swear in front of clients, or strangers, or the cashier at the grocery store, or any number of people I come into contact with. I don't think you're suggesting that casual attire could be offensive to some people? But yes, I do speak more formally to clients in general. My tone is more professional, you are right. Informative. Factual. Confident, authoritative, whatever that thing is that lets them know they can rely on what you are saying. However, there is also chit chat, and sharing personal stuff sometimes. (Sometimes; it depends on the client.) In that case, my voice changes to more informal. In no case whatsoever am I grammatically incorrect, if I can help it. Mom was an English teacher.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 16, 2017 19:53:09 GMT -5
If you go to a formal wedding or funeral or a black tie affair in shorts and flip-flops, some will certainly find it offensive. If I met with the CEO of a major corporation in my role as a lawyer in shorts and flip-flops, I think he'd be likely to be offended.
And they'd laugh if you wore a business suit or a ball gown to the beach.
Context is, as always, everything.
Hell, why wear clothes at all. They're just a cultural thing. Let's go to work naked and barefoot in the summer.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 16, 2017 20:02:07 GMT -5
Why eat with forks and spoons? It's just cultural. Use your fingers. (I'd say wipe your fingers on your clothes, but you'll be naked.) Tattoo "rebel!" across your forehead -- that won't effect your work performance. And if everyone did it, it would soon be normal. May as well shave half your head, too, and pierce everything piercable. Screw cultural restraints. You be you and watch the world follow!
|
|
|
Post by Christine on Jul 16, 2017 20:05:02 GMT -5
People who would actually be offended by flip flops at a funeral or a wedding are people I would prefer never to know.
If they found it odd, silly, or ridiculous, fair enough. Everyone is entitled to an opinion.
|
|
|
Post by Christine on Jul 16, 2017 20:08:58 GMT -5
You're so judgemental, Cass.
*uses Cass's suit lapel for barbecue sauce drips, cuz nekkid*
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 16, 2017 20:16:28 GMT -5
People who would actually be offended by flip flops at a funeral or a wedding are people I would prefer never to know. If they found it odd, silly, or ridiculous, fair enough. Everyone is entitled to an opinion. If someone were too poor to afford shoes, or some malady prevented you from wearing actual shoes, I would not be offended if you wore flip-flops to my formal wedding. If you wore them because you couldn't be bothered to dress for the occasion I'd be offended. Ditto for my loved one's funeral. Poverty or some disability would justify it. Mere comfiness and laziness, no. Prefer not to know me. I think it's rude to put your comfort ahead of every other consideration.
|
|
|
Post by mikey on Jul 16, 2017 20:23:54 GMT -5
If I met with the CEO of a major corporation in my role as a lawyer in shorts and flip-flops, I think he'd be likely to be offended. I'm thinking that rather than being offended, he'd more likely be confused, wondering if he got his schedule mixed up.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 16, 2017 20:31:23 GMT -5
If I met with the CEO of a major corporation in my role as a lawyer in shorts and flip-flops, I think he'd be likely to be offended. I'm thinking that rather than being offended, he'd more likely be confused, wondering if he got his schedule mixed up. Very likely. And once he found out he hadn't, he'd likely be re-considering hiring me. I might have a fine brain, but obviously I am oblivious to appearances and convention, and didn't find the meeting important enough to dress for. Which in some professions and some areas of life, I think still matters -- and should matter.
|
|
|
Post by Christine on Jul 16, 2017 20:31:24 GMT -5
If I met with the CEO of a major corporation in my role as a lawyer in shorts and flip-flops, I think he'd be likely to be offended. I'm thinking that rather than being offended, he'd more likely be confused, wondering if he got his schedule mixed up. Attorney at 2 pm, Pilates at 4.... or was it vice versa? Goddamnit this tie is cutting off circulation to my brain again
|
|
|
Post by Christine on Jul 16, 2017 20:39:39 GMT -5
People who would actually be offended by flip flops at a funeral or a wedding are people I would prefer never to know. If they found it odd, silly, or ridiculous, fair enough. Everyone is entitled to an opinion. If someone were too poor to afford shoes, or some malady prevented you from wearing actual shoes, I would not be offended if you wore flip-flops to my formal wedding. If you wore them because you couldn't be bothered to dress for the occasion I'd be offended. Ditto for my loved one's funeral. Poverty or some disability would justify it. Mere comfiness and laziness, no. Prefer not to know me. I think it's rude to put your comfort ahead of every other consideration. The fact that anyone would take the time and effort in their day of joy or grief to be offended by what someone is wearing is sad to me. I already know you and like you though, so TOO LATE.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 16, 2017 20:53:19 GMT -5
The fact that someone would put their comfort ahead of showing respect for one of the most important occasions in my life by wearing appropriate clothing is sad to me. Also rude.
Not to mention that appropriate clothing need not be unduly constricting nor expensive. As I said, though, I would consider poverty to be a perfectly acceptable excuse.
That said? I went to a church in Harlem once to attend their gospel singing mass (which was AMAZING, btw). I was really glad I'd dressed up. The neighborhood was a poor one, but those churchgoers DRESSED for church. I saw hats and gloves. Ribbons on the little girls. Ties on the little boys. It was wonderful. If they lived in that neighborhood, they likely didn't have much to spare, but they dressed nicely for church because they CARED about it.
I'm not religious, but I thought that was lovely. And to note, when I attend a religious service of any demonination, I dress respectfully, too, for the sake of those who revere the place.
I think dressing properly for an occasion is about respect. I don't think my desire to wear plastic footwear trumps respect.
I admit, I am old-fashioned about this sort of thing. I really like it when people look nice. I enjoy looking nice myself. And I don't find it more trouble to put on a skirt and shoes rather than flip-flops and shorts.
|
|
|
Post by Christine on Jul 16, 2017 21:11:24 GMT -5
The fact that someone would put their comfort ahead of showing respect for one of the most important occasions in my life by wearing appropriate clothing is sad to me. Also rude. It's not necessarily about comfort, in the way that I think you're using the word. It's about what people want to put on. Their own bodies. What they feel most themselves in. Because that's who they are. I mean, most people, including myself, will wear the appropriate attire for whatever occasion. But some people won't feel.... yeah, comfortable doing that. But it's not because they're thumbing their noses at you and your tradition (necessarily). If they were intentionally being disrespectful, if they were purposefully wearing crappy clothes just to piss you off, I'd agree with you. Bad form. But what if they aren't? Are you still offended? I would not care what people wear to my wedding or my funeral. I'd be glad they came. Seriously. Think about that. They came. If that doesn't make you feel better, just kick the bastards out.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 16, 2017 21:33:42 GMT -5
I don't see this whole "I gotta be who I am, and that's flip-flops" argument as remotely convincing. "It's my body"? Dress it in flip-flops for your own wedding, not mine. This is not about bodily autonomy. If you wanted to come topless or in a thong bathing suit, is that ok because it is your body?
If we are talking about an article of clothing worn as a matter of religious faith, that's if course another matter.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 16, 2017 21:47:33 GMT -5
To note: There might be other good reasons for coming in inappropriate attire that are acceptable, but I would say they are exceptions, not rules.
One happened to occur with my own dad's wake. His golfing buddies, some years previously, had started a golfing tournament in honor of one of their group (my dad's best friend) when he died. As it happens, that long-planned event was scheduled for the morning of my dad's wake. They discussed cancelling it and trying to reschedule it, then holding it in honor of my dad, too. A couple of questions later, I learned that it wouldn't mean they'd have to miss the wake -- just come half an hour late still in golf clothes.
I told them I could think of no honor my dad would like better than for them to play golf in his honor and his late best friend's honor, and then to come directly to the wake in their golf clothes. Because that demonstrated its own form of respect. (Though it would not have done so were it just any old round of golf.)
Every one of those guys came to the funeral in a suit and tie, but they wore golf shorts to the wake, and I thought it was great.
Like I said, it is about respect.
|
|