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Post by Deleted on Sept 28, 2017 20:32:45 GMT -5
t.co/DOpKCbc1IJ?amp=1OK. Team Melania all the way here. The librarian is priggish and rude, and politicized a completely non-political gesture. I grew up on Dr. Seuss -- they were the first books I read on my own and I've given a pile of them to the kids in my life. I'll be damned if I can see anything racist in them. (stereotypes of who? Zooks? The Whos in Whoville?) You know who agrees with me on that? The librarian had one valid point, I suppose -- that there are schools that need books more -- but this was one fucking lousy way to make that point. The self-righteous...it buuuurns.
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Post by Optimus on Sept 28, 2017 21:24:15 GMT -5
Agreed. I had literally just read about this right before I saw your post. Darn you for beating me with a story again! But, yeah, what an asshat response from that librarian. If she was really so concerned that there are schools out there that need the books more than the school she works at, WHY THE FUCK DIDN'T SHE ACCEPT THE BOOKS AND THEN TURN AROUND AND DONATE THEM TO ONE OF THOSE SCHOOLS? But, why let an actual good deed get in the way of a little concern trolling and unnecessary political posturing? This was political grandstanding; nothing more. Trump is garbage but Melania hasn't really done anything that I'm aware of, except be trapped in a marriage to him and be thrust into uncomfortable public/political situations she probably doesn't want to be in. If she's said or done something horrible, then someone please link me to a story so I can read up on it. Just take the damned books and do something good with them. From what I've read, it seems Dr. Seuss (the actual dude) did draw some racist stuff in his past, but I'm not convinced that The Cat in the Hat, specifically, is some sort of "children's book blackface," and I doubt most people view it as that. But, I can see why some people might believe it (especially now, as it's an idea being pushed hard by Phil Nel to sell his book on it...where he seems to see racist stuff everywhere he looks). She's free to believe it. I disagree with her opinion on that, but I don't hold that disagreement against her. It's just a difference of opinion. But, she did act incredibly unprofessionally, and I do take issue with her behavior, mainly because of her role in the elementary school and I don't think primary and secondary schools should be overtly political.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 28, 2017 22:00:43 GMT -5
Here is an article about Seuss's past. www.businessinsider.com/before-dr-seuss-was-famous-he-drew-these-sad-racist-ads-2012-3He was a liberal Democrat, but a man of his time, which meant that he did indeed have some tired stereotypes in his head which came out in his career drawing political cartoons and advertisements during the 1920s-40s, particularly with regard to the Japanese during WWII. He repudiated and regretted the cartoons later in life, and drew anti-racist cartoons. And gotta say I don't see a trace of racism in his children's books (and neither, apparently, does President Obama). ETA: I didn't know anything about his past until tonight. I cringed looking at the cartoons. But given his repudiation of it, and given that it was so unfortunately typical of the era, I'm still not inclined to flush his excellent children's books down the toilet. The man lived, learned, and regretted.
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Post by nighttimer on Sept 30, 2017 17:09:26 GMT -5
t.co/DOpKCbc1IJ?amp=1OK. Team Melania all the way here. The librarian is priggish and rude, and politicized a completely non-political gesture. I grew up on Dr. Seuss -- they were the first books I read on my own and I've given a pile of them to the kids in my life. I'll be damned if I can see anything racist in them. (stereotypes of who? Zooks? The Whos in Whoville?) You know who agrees with me on that? The librarian had one valid point, I suppose -- that there are schools that need books more -- but this was one fucking lousy way to make that point. The self-righteous...it buuuurns. Are you including yourself in that self-righteousness? I'm never on Team Melania because she's on Team Trump, and that tells me all I need to know about her. If she's in a shitty marriage, one word of advice: LEAVE. She signed up for this job. Don't like the work, don't cash the check. Otherwise, I got zero fucks to give about whether or not she and Donny are enjoying wedded bliss. Lots of trophy wives are stuck in loveless, sexless, passionless arrangements they laughingly call "marriage." When she gets a few crow's feet and starts sagging a bit or develops a little cellulite, Donny will cut her loose like she was on The Apprentice, have her deported, and go shopping for Wifey Number Four. Suffice it to say, Melania's situation does not pull at my heartstrings nor does she cut a particularly sympathetic figure. Some teachers really aren't big fans of Betsy DeVos, the moron in the White House OR his imported wife. The librarian had her reasons why she didn't want Melania's leftovers from back in the day when she read to Barron his bedtime story. Okay, the nanny probably read it, but the song remains the same. Miss Soeiro sounds like a fine librarian. She handled that shit like a boss.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 30, 2017 17:19:15 GMT -5
Apparently this librarian is just way more woke than the Obamas.
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Post by nighttimer on Sept 30, 2017 18:29:34 GMT -5
Apparently this librarian is just way more woke than the Obamas. "Woke" is the new "dissed and "shade." Played out as last month's hit song and by the time the mainstream got ahold of it, everybody else done moved on. But since you mentioned the Obamas, I'm going to hazard a guess they are more simpatico to the librarian then The First Lady You Can Find Nekkid Pics Of.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 30, 2017 18:54:13 GMT -5
It isn't about being sympathetic to Melania. You don't have to love and support her to evaluate the librarian's behavior and come up with "rude," "ungracious," and "priggish."
And actually, I disagree with your conclusion. I would bet money that the Obamas (ever gracious and classy themselves) would think the librarian acted like a jackass. Not so much because they like Dr. Seuss (although they do), or because they believe in respecting the office of the presidency (though they do), or because they believe in leaving the president's family out of abuse for the president (though they do), but because they know this is just no way to react to someone giving a gift of children's books. (And seriously, how could they think it awesome that the librarian condemned as "tired" and "racist" books that they themselves praised and read publicly to children? Fer serious, I don't think they would share your take At. All.)
And as far as the Obamas being sympathetic or not to Melania -- go back again and watch that video of the Trumps arriving at the White House and being greeted by the Obamas. Trump leaving Melania in the dust. The two of them greeting her, putting their hands on her back and welcoming her in. I think they are sympathetic and would go out of their way to be kind and supportive of her despite how much they must dislike her husband
I DO agree with you that Melania enables Trump's bad behavior, if only in remaining married to him and being silent in the face of it. But then I have seen so many spouses, especially political ones, enable bad behavior. She's not my first choice as First Lady and I don't see her as a victim, since she chose Trump (if not her position as First Lady, which I suspect she would not have chosen voluntarily). But then I don't see her as evil or malicious, either.
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Post by Vince524 on Sept 30, 2017 18:54:36 GMT -5
I'm backing Melania on this.
1st off, do you really think if Mrs. Obama had done this, the librarian would have not accepted the book?
2nd off, it's a gift. When someone gives you a gift, you accept it.
3rd off, the smack down at the end is clearly the reason why. She has an issue with President Trump, so she used this as a political protest. It should not have been. It does nothing to further her goals and makes her look petty.
4th off, the idea that Dr. Seuss is cliche is stupid as we're talking about a beloved children's book. If it's cliche, it's because it's been ripped off.
5th off, I just feel that things look better in 5's. 3's, 5's 10's etc. Not 4. So there. Argue with that!
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Post by michaelw on Sept 30, 2017 19:52:20 GMT -5
5th off, I just feel that things look better in 5's. 3's, 5's 10's etc. Not 4. So there. Argue with that! I will not write in twos or fours, It does not open any doors to seeing how whether north or south you should not look a gift book in the mouth.
Librarians might think they should refuse but what if it were Zola's J'Accuse? Would one not see the irony in putting on such piety?
Since when did books become so fraught that none can be given, only bought? Let's do away with all this special pleading when it comes to things like children's reading.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 30, 2017 19:55:46 GMT -5
You get a karma point for entertaining me.
I sorely need entertaining today.
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Post by nighttimer on Sept 30, 2017 20:09:39 GMT -5
It isn't about being sympathetic to Melania. You don't have to love and support her to evaluate the librarian's behavior and come up with "rude," "ungracious," and "priggish." That's how you evaluate Ms. Soiero's behavior. I evaluate Ms. Soiero's behavior as "polite," "respectful," and "civil." Different strokes 4 different folks. No, I don't think the Obamas would have regarded the librarian's response as acting like a jackass. I think they would look at Trump and DeVos and agree with Ms. Soiero that this misadministration and conclude as she has they are making America's children dumber, not smarter, and starving them of the resources they need to grow up to be healthy, rational, reasoning adults. I also think the Obamas valued education and the independence of librarians in a way the Trumps do not. For serious, the Obamas do not have the time to drill down into the problems with Dr. Seuss as an educator or librarian might. For serious, there are many children books that are racist and certainly are tired as hell. Or did you read Alice and Jerry books when you were just a wee little Cassandra? Whether or not they would Share. My. Take. At. All, Doesn't your insistence they would not fals under the category of "assuming facts not in evidence," counselor? Well, I suspect we'll never know as it has been over 10 years since I last spoke directly to Barack. Let me give him a shout and see what the brutha says. And if you should talk to him or Michelle first, you tell me. Evil? Malicious? Not necessarily. But calculating and in over her head as much as hubby is? Definitely. Which is why I have zero minus zero sympathy for her. Donald Trump treats Melania like a trophy he acquired. Barack Obama treats Michelle like a blessing he received. Obama respect women. Trump respects nobody, especially women. Don't confuse the Obamas being polite with having any special fondness for Melania. If she's in a bad way, she put herself into it. She can get out of it the same way. I'm backing Melania on this. 1st off, do you really think if Mrs. Obama had done this, the librarian would have not accepted the book? 2nd off, it's a gift. When someone gives you a gift, you accept it. 3rd off, the smack down at the end is clearly the reason why. She has an issue with President Trump, so she used this as a political protest. It should not have been. It does nothing to further her goals and makes her look petty. 4th off, the idea that Dr. Seuss is cliche is stupid as we're talking about a beloved children's book. If it's cliche, it's because it's been ripped off. 5th off, I just feel that things look better in 5's. 3's, 5's 10's etc. Not 4. So there. Argue with that! 1. Don't know. Care less. 2. If someone gift wraps a turd in a pretty box with a bow around it, it's still a gift-wrapped turd with a bow on it in a pretty box. All gifts are not welcomed gifts. That's why toasters and ugly ties get returned the day after Christmas. 3. No, it doesn't As someone invested in the education of children she has a vested interest in doing her job. That's not political protest. That's speaking truth to power and it does further her goals. It furthers her goal not to put books she considers lame in the library. 4. Lots of books are cliche AND racist. Simply because Dr. Seuss was your beloved children's book doesn't mean Theodore Geisel wasn't in his own way problematic in some of his work. The refusal to face or acknowledge that problematic issue doesn't mean it no longer exists. 5. Okay.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 30, 2017 20:49:11 GMT -5
I decided to reach out to Barack myself to ask him to weigh in. (Naturally, his response, being on such an important issue, was in Courier font.)
Dear CassandraW:
I am deeply distressed that you even need to ask whether I think that courageous librarian did the right thing.
Given Donald Trump's all-round horribleness, Michelle and I are now mortified to think that we ourselves accepted a gift from Melania Trump rather than tossing it in her face. Worse still, we ourselves, in an inexcusable lapse of wokeness, failed to recognize the obvious racism in Dr. Seuss's books. Not only did we read them to our own precious children, we have been repeatedly captured in photos like these in the very act of infecting other children with such despicable bigotry:
Moreover, I compounded my error by saying ridiculous shit like this:
So obviously, nighttimer was 100% right about my feelings on this and you were as usual 100% making a completely unjustified guess. OF COURSE the librarian did the right thing. Michelle is in the process of sending back Melania's gift at this very moment with a strongly worded note about the tired cliche of purchasing a gift from Tiffany's, their terrible history of buying blood diamonds, and instructing her with regard to the many families living in poverty who need gifts so much more than a privileged family such as ourselves.
I can only hope the Resistance will forgive us.
Yours in regret and wokeness, President Barack Obama
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Post by Deleted on Sept 30, 2017 21:30:42 GMT -5
Oh, and he added a postscript, fwiw:
P.S. You know, in retrospect, Kanye was dead-on right about that whole Beyonce/Taylor Swift thing. I mean, what the hell, amirite. Good for him for speaking up.
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Post by Amadan on Sept 30, 2017 21:54:32 GMT -5
4. Lots of books are cliche AND racist. Simply because Dr. Seuss was your beloved children's book doesn't mean Theodore Geisel wasn't in his own way problematic in some of his work. The refusal to face or acknowledge that problematic issue doesn't mean it no longer exists. The only knock against Geisel that I'm aware of is that during World War II, he drew some pretty racist anti-Japanese cartoons. He later regretted that. Weighed against his life's work and the messages in his books, I think it's really stretching to read Dr. Seuss as "problematic" and inappropriate for children today. It's not like you have to pretend he was a saint who never harbored a single bad thought, but I think hardly a single author alive or dead could pass that level of scrutiny unless they have spent their entire lives in a state of woke. Now, Dr. Dolittle.... if you've never read the original book, well, that was some racist shit. Don't read it if you don't want to tarnish your memories of the Disney movie.
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Post by michaelw on Sept 30, 2017 22:05:37 GMT -5
And I hear that Robovowels has been known to dabble in Heidegger. Can we get some outrage for that, too?
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