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Post by nighttimer on Oct 1, 2017 20:09:50 GMT -5
I just don't get how this librarian can refuse accepting Dr. Seuss books because a) it's "cliche" and b) the books are racist, yet have no problem playing Dr. Seuss dress-up in her library. That's not only pure hypocrisy, it's also top-drawer dumbassery, imo. I would positively LOVE to see an actual reasoned argument as to why this isn't the case, for either the hypocrisy, the dumbassery, or both... No you wouldn't. Not even a little bit. You'd positively HATE it.
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Post by Amadan on Oct 1, 2017 20:12:56 GMT -5
I just don't get how this librarian can refuse accepting Dr. Seuss books because a) it's "cliche" and b) the books are racist, yet have no problem playing Dr. Seuss dress-up in her library. That's not only pure hypocrisy, it's also top-drawer dumbassery, imo. I would positively LOVE to see an actual reasoned argument as to why this isn't the case, for either the hypocrisy, the dumbassery, or both... No you wouldn't. Not even a little bit. You'd positively HATE it. Give it a shot.
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Post by robeiae on Oct 1, 2017 20:30:41 GMT -5
No you wouldn't. Not even a little bit. You'd positively HATE it. No I wouldn't. As I said, I'd love to see such an argument. I'm not invested in any of this. The school has already "counseled" the librarian with regard to her cluelessness here. Trump fans are having a field day with the pics of the librarian in Seuss-gear and with the pics of Michelle Obama reading Dr. Seuss books to kids. I can't find anyone actually defending the librarian, now that the pictures of her in Seuss-gear have surfaced. Well, aside from you, that is. You know, part of her letter is defensible, imo. It makes some sound points about maybe not sending books to schools that have superior resources (though one might still argue that such points don't need to be made publicly, because that's just obnoxious). But the stuff about Seuss being cliche and racist (and thus apparently not appropriate), that looks contrived, given the pics of her happily celebrating in Seuss-gear. And if that looks contrived, it calls into question the other points she made, not if they are good points, but whether or not she was being sincere when making them. So tell me, how does she not look a hypocrite when she parades around as the Cat in the Hat and celebrates Dr. Seuss in general, then tsk-tsks someone for giving her some Dr. Seuss books because they're cliche (i.e., nobody is really interested in them, anymore) and racist?
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Post by michaelw on Oct 1, 2017 20:33:34 GMT -5
That's not only pure hypocrisy, it's also top-drawer dumbassery, imo. The hypocrisy angle being by far the funniest part, IMO. I mean, she was dressed up as the Cat in the Hat. That's waaaaay funnier than if she was just reading one of the books, like Obama.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 1, 2017 20:36:32 GMT -5
I admit I'd like to see an actual reasoned argument for it as well, since to me it genuinely does just seem petty, pointless and hypocritical.
Under the facts presented (in particular given the librarian's own Cat in the Hat costume), the only argument I can see is "yay, dissing Melania is teh awesome for its own sake!" Which isn't really about reason.
ETA:
I have issues with her "other schools need it more" as an excuse for sending back the books for at least three reasons: (1), as Rob mentions, because her hypocrisy about the content of the books calls into questions her sincerity generally, but also (2) the fact that Melania sent a few books to this school actually doesn't mean she didn't send books to underprivileged schools as well, and even if she didn't (3) her school could have passed on the books to a needier school itself, if it wanted to do so. Or the librarian could have given a donation to buy them some. Really, there were a lot of ways to go about it rather than writing a lecturing letter to the First Lady rejecting her books and schooling her on how lousy her gift was.
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Post by michaelw on Oct 1, 2017 20:40:49 GMT -5
I think that boat has sailed.
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Post by nighttimer on Oct 1, 2017 20:41:23 GMT -5
No you wouldn't. Not even a little bit. You'd positively HATE it. No I wouldn't. As I said, I'd love to see such an argument. I'm not invested in any of this. The school has already "counseled" the librarian with regard to her cluelessness here. Trump fans are having a field day with the pics of the librarian in Seuss-gear and with the pics of Michelle Obama reading Dr. Seuss books to kids. I can't find anyone actually defending the librarian, now that the pictures of her in Seuss-gear have surfaced. Well, aside from you, that is.
You know, part of her letter is defensible, imo. It makes some sound points about maybe not sending books to schools that have superior resources (though one might still argue that such points don't need to be made publicly, because that's just obnoxious). But the stuff about Seuss being cliche and racist (and thus apparently not appropriate), that looks contrived, given the pics of her happily celebrating in Seuss-gear. And if that looks contrived, it calls into question the other points she made, not if they are good points, but whether or not she was being sincere when making them. So tell me, how does she not look a hypocrite when she parades around as the Cat in the Hat and celebrates Dr. Seuss in general, then tsk-tsks someone for giving her some Dr. Seuss books because they're cliche (i.e., nobody is really interested in them, anymore) and racist?
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Post by nighttimer on Oct 1, 2017 20:44:59 GMT -5
In case you were wondering what that is, robeiae, that's you being very much vested. The fact that I'm the only one defending the librarian doesn't mean I'm wrong and it doesn't bother me to be on the "wrong" side of the argument, particularly when I see who's on the "right" side. I prefer being where the mob isn't.
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Post by robeiae on Oct 1, 2017 21:12:39 GMT -5
Meh, you're all mob, no sense on this particular issue, since you're not offering any actual argument, just trying to make this about personalities, as opposed to offering an actual reasoned argument on how she's not being hypocritical.
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Post by Amadan on Oct 1, 2017 21:18:12 GMT -5
In case you were wondering what that is, robeiae, that's you being very much vested. The fact that I'm the only one defending the librarian doesn't mean I'm wrong and it doesn't bother me to be on the "wrong" side of the argument, particularly when I see who's on the "right" side. I prefer being where the mob isn't. I think you mistake long-winded pedantic arguments (which rob is prone to) with emotional investment. Projection, in other words. You haven't made an argument, though. You just keep saying the librarian is right. Why? Because. You say so. The "mob" in this thread is everyone else giving reasoned arguments why they don't think she is. It's possible you're right and everyone else is wrong, but if you're not willing to explain why, then what is your purpose here? If everyone here is either too stupid or too evil to be worth a serious response, the only explanation left for your continued presence here is trolling.
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Post by nighttimer on Oct 1, 2017 22:33:08 GMT -5
Meh, you're all mob, no sense on this particular issue, since you're not offering any actual argument, just trying to make this about personalities, as opposed to offering an actual reasoned argument on how she's not being hypocritical. Oh, sure I have. You just happen to not agree its an "actual reasoned argument" but your agreement isn't required. You're the one who wants to frame this debate as Soeiro being hypocritical and I don't blame you for that. I know you'd love to make it about Soeiro instead of her letter and the harsh truths about what Melania's hubby, Betsy DeVos and the other radicals in this administration are doing to public education. Well, go ahead and change the topic to one you feel more comfortable with, but since you already have an amen corner here willing to shout, "Tell 'em, brother" I see no need to join in. If anyone's part of the lynch mob mentality of this thread, it's not the guy on Team Librarian instead of Team Trump.
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Post by nighttimer on Oct 1, 2017 22:39:00 GMT -5
If everyone here is either too stupid or too evil to be worth a serious response, the only explanation left for your continued presence here is trolling. Not everyone.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 1, 2017 22:47:38 GMT -5
First, the fact that we all agree the librarian was wrong doesn't make us a "lynch mob." By that reasoning, the resistance movement is a "lynch mob," seeing as how everyone in it pretty vehemently agrees that Trump is wrong about pretty much everything, and says so constantly (myself included).
What on earth does Betsy DeVos have to do with Dr. Seuss's books? That's a completely serious question.
If the librarian's letter is about a protest of Betsy DeVos, then in fact ANYTHING Melania gave to the school should be rejected, correct? So it's not about the damn books or Dr. Seuss at all. But even if you think that's cool and the way to go, it still makes the librarian a liar and a hypocrite, because that's not in fact what her stated justification was for returning the books. She went on at some length about how other schools were poor and her school was privileged and so books should go to them instead and how Dr. Seuss books were a tired cliche and full of racism and she give a list full of other books she liked better -- but she didn't say "anything you could possibly give, Melania, is unacceptable because Betsy DeVos." (And as we've already pointed out, her CiaH costume is a pretty clear demonstration that everything she said about Seuss was insincere at best.)
I very seriously, in all sincerity, cannot see a way out of this that makes this librarian not look like a jackass. And I say that as someone who completely loathes Trump and DeVos.
ETA:
Unfortunately, I see what this librarian did -- and the cheering for it -- as being rather akin to what certain Trump followers do. They really do not give a crap what Trump does or what he says about it or how obviously bogus his statements are, as long as it upsets liberals. Here, it seems it doesn't particularly matter what the reasons are for what this librarian did or what she said about it and how her own behavior conflicted with what she said. All that matters is that it was a diss on Melania Trump.
And yeah, that's not my playbook and never will be. It's part of what I hate most about the Trump movement, in fact.
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Post by Optimus on Oct 1, 2017 23:09:29 GMT -5
Here, it seems it doesn't particularly matter what the reasons are for what this librarian did or what she said about it and how her own behavior conflicted with what she said. All that matters is that it was a diss on Melania Trump. Yep. That sounds about right... I'm never on Team Melania because she's on Team Trump, and that tells me all I need to know about her.
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Post by michaelw on Oct 1, 2017 23:15:15 GMT -5
^ Right. If one is going to say in advance that they'll never side with someone on anything, then the specific details of any particular event involving that person become irrelevant, at that point.
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