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Post by Deleted on Oct 17, 2017 16:21:19 GMT -5
Earlier I asked Cassandra if she had an opportunity to speak with Melania or Liz, which one of the two protagonists would she choose? She chose Melania. I chose Liz. Because that's who we identify most with. Duh. No. No, that's exactly backward. Go back and read my post again. I would choose Melania for exactly the opposite reason -- because I do NOT relate to her, because she is UNlike me in background and (clearly) tastes and desires, because I don't fully understand what makes her tick. And that interests me. Whereas Liz sounds pretty much like a million other people I know and come into contact with every single day in New York. Which, actually, doesn't particularly interest me. If I'm going to meet one person for an hour, it's going to be the one who will make for the most interesting hour -- and (barring some stupendous accomplishment), that's going to be the one who is NOT like me. Similarly, I am not someone who goes back to the same beach year after year on vacation. I'm the one who sets off alone to a place I've never been and where I don't speak the language. (Which is why I've hit some 40 countries in 6 continents, and am not near done yet). I'm not the one who orders the same medium rare steak off the menu. I'm the one who points randomly at the non-English menu and winds up with the whole braised cow tongue on her plate (that really did happen). I chose to live in NYC, with all its expense and inconvenience, largely because I can, any day of the week, walk out the door and run into something truly unexpected. Sure, it would be easy to scoff Melania off as a pretty gold-digger, all surface and no depth. But I'm not at all sure that's right or just. I'd be interested in hearing her point of view. I'm guessing, given how wildly different her background is from mine, that her expectations of relationships and marriage, her idea of what a man is supposed to be like, are also wildly different from mine. The closest I can come to delving into her mind at present is to consider two people I've been close to who also spent their childhoods behind the iron curtain. One was a good friend. She married a guy that all of us (her circle of friends) thought was just AWFUL. But she adored him. Still does, four kids later. Clearly, what she thought was awesome wasn't what any of us did. The other was a guy I dated for a few months. God, in some ways, it was amazing -- we had stunning chemistry. But it soon became apparent that our expectations of relationships were just not compatible, and I think much of it was cultural. So I can just barely imagine that Melania may have seen Trump 20 years ago (especially since he was a better looking dude at that time), and been genuinely attracted. Sure, I'm not and never would have been -- but I'm not her. Adjust your view of me accordingly. I've NO interest in living in an echo chamber, meeting only people I relate to. So in fact, I pretty much agree with what you've said here: It now occurs to me what actually might be best for everyone would be if Melania and Liz spoke directly with each other. Not to say they'd get on any better than we are here, but could they get on any worse? Wonder why nobody suggested that? How would it have gone down if Ms. Soeiro had invited Mrs. Trump to come to her library and respectfully express her concerns and reasons for rebuffing the Dr. Seuss books, and Melania accepted? Or flip the script and Melania invited Liz to the White House where they could discuss their differences in a respectful manner respecting each other's perspective. ... and my choice of companion reflects it. It's also the whole idea behind this board. I don't agree with Mikey and c.e.lawson's choice of president. I don't agree with you on Ms. S or on nude pictures. And indeed, I don't agree with Rob on a pile of stuff. But I don't want any of you to stop giving your point of view (unless that point of view is to personally attack another member or defy a mod note). Because as annoying as you all are , it's just more interesting if everyone isn't coming from the same place. You may think I'm weird, but my imaginary friend disagrees. Fuck no. You're weird. You see, Vince? Your imaginary friend totally thinks you're weird.
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Post by mikey on Oct 17, 2017 18:11:28 GMT -5
It's also the whole idea behind this board. I don't agree with Mikey and c.e.lawson's choice of president. I don't agree with you on Ms. S or on nude pictures. And indeed, I don't agree with Rob on a pile of stuff. But I don't want any of you to stop giving your point of view (unless that point of view is to personally attack another member or defy a mod note). Because as annoying as you all are , it's just more interesting if everyone isn't coming from the same place. You see, Vince? Your imaginary friend totally thinks you're weird. Ahem, I have never, ever, in the history of the internet made my choice of president known. The fact that I don't jump on the shit talking dog pile on Trump does not mean I've voiced my choice of president. So please don't group me into a black or white box. I just don't wish to belong to a shit talking dog pile of a mob. Those people are an embarrassment to humanity in my view. I'm kinda rebelistic that way End commercial
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Post by Deleted on Oct 17, 2017 18:52:37 GMT -5
Ahem, I have never, ever, in the history of the internet made my choice of president known. The fact that I don't jump on the shit talking dog pile on Trump does not mean I've voiced my choice of president. So please don't group me into a black or white box. Point taken, Mikey. I made an assumption based on the "A" grade. But yes, that doesn't mean you voted for him. I can't bear the guy (and as you may have gathered, I'm not one who hates and trash-talks all conservatives and Republicans), so I suppose you'll have to lump me in with the shit-talking dog pile of a mob. To be fair, I hated him when he was a Democrat, too. It goes way back to long before he entered politics -- even before he went on The Apprentice. Obviously, I don't carry that feeling over to Melania, nor do I have animosity towards Ivanka (though I don't think she belongs working in the White House). And Barron, I'm strongly sympathetic towards and even worry about sometimes, as I do all First Kids, because it has got to be tough to grow up under that kind of scrutiny. Also to note -- there is a shit-talking dog pile of a mob against Hillary, too. And other political figures -- McCain gets just horrifying hate from a certain group of alleged Trump fans, hoping his cancer is painful, denigrating his war record, etc. We live in ugly. contentious times.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 17, 2017 20:27:15 GMT -5
I just don't wish to belong to a shit talking dog pile of a mob. Those people are an embarrassment to humanity in my view. By the way, I have to take issue with this beyond our respective opinions of Trump. (We differ on that, of course.) I mean the "embarrassment to humanity" thing. If a person genuinely has an ill-opinion of someone that they believe is well-supported on numerous grounds, do you believe that they should shut up about their opinion or change their opinion simply because many other people agree with that opinion? Or do you believe that it is simply impossible to dislike Trump and/or think he's a terrible president? There may be a "shit talking dog pile of a mob" that dislikes Trump -- count me among them -- but we shit-talkers actually have a pile of reasons for it that are pretty solid. Take aside all of the Russia stuff, which I know you don't believe, and which, in fairness, Mueller is still sorting out. Trump lies CONSTANTLY, and always has -- and when he doesn't outright lie, he speaks with a complete disregard for whether what he is saying is true. That alone is damning for me. He brags CONSTANTLY. He's disloyal and turns on people on a dime, but demands absolutely loyalty to himself. That horrible pussy-grabbing video, god. His calling tabloids back in his single days using fake names to brag about dating starlets and models -- many of which (e.g., Carla Bruni) he didn't actually date -- who DOES that?! His skeevy business practices (that's one reason we NYCers have long disliked him). His dissing of McCain's war record. His making fun of the handicapped reporter and McCain's limited arm motion. His trashing of Ted Cruz's wife and sneering at her looks. And on and on. Look, you may not care about that. But many of us do. And it's documented, it's on the record. It's not fake news. And it is basis enough for a lot of us to think he's unfit to be president. The fact that a LOT of us feel that way doesn't mean we're an embarrassment to humanity. And by the way -- unlike some people here, I understand the reasons a lot of people dislike Hillary. Some of the stuff was overblown, exaggerated, or just plain invented, but some of it isn't. And hey, I have some problems with her, too. So I get why there were many who couldn't stomach voting for her. Unless they were spreading completely false rumors without discrimination and saying disgusting sexist stuff about her, I don't think they are an "embarrassment to humanity." You need not be bothered by the same things that bother us, but that doesn't make us an "embarrassment to humanity." ETA: And I have to ask, rhetorically (since I don't expect an answer), whether you felt the same way about the considerable mobs who raged against Hillary and Obama. When Trump led rallies of people screaming "LOCK HER UP!" during the election (As a lawyer, I can tell you that yeah, she didn't do anything that would remotely entail imprisonment), were you denouncing them as an "embarrassment to humanity"? How about the ones who just constantly grumbled how lousy and crooked she is and how they don't like her? ETA: It may well be that you disliked those mobs, too, and found them disgraceful. So I'm actually NOT making assumptions here. You might be someone who sticks up for whomever seems to you to be getting a lot of criticism. My dad was like that. If he'd been around during the election, he would have been defending Hillary against the "Lock her up!" nonsense, and right now he'd be defending Trump (though he would not have voted for him). It was just his way. He was defending OJ Simpson until the very end as potentially innocent, simply because everyone thought him guilty. (Probably also because Simpson was a HUGE hero in Buffalo, where I hail from -- that murder trial was really a blow to a lot of us. That said, most of us reluctantly believed him guilty by the end. Not my dad! Dear dad always stuck up for whomever he perceived as getting a lot of shit, period. It was maybe the one thing he and I used to quarrel about. )
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Post by Vince524 on Oct 17, 2017 20:37:45 GMT -5
Using a fork and knife to eat pizza makes someone an embarrassment to humanity.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 17, 2017 20:42:20 GMT -5
Using a fork and knife to eat pizza makes someone an embarrassment to humanity. Well, I mean, yeah. That and cooking chicken wings in a crock pot.
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Post by Vince524 on Oct 17, 2017 20:49:24 GMT -5
How does one even do that?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 17, 2017 20:58:32 GMT -5
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Post by mikey on Oct 17, 2017 21:24:30 GMT -5
I just don't wish to belong to a shit talking dog pile of a mob. Those people are an embarrassment to humanity in my view. By the way, I have to take issue with this beyond our respective opinions of Trump. (We differ on that, of course.) I mean the "embarrassment to humanity" thing. If a person genuinely has an ill-opinion of someone that they believe is well-supported on numerous grounds, do you believe that they should shut up about their opinion or change their opinion simply because many other people agree with that opinion? No, not at all Again no, not at all As do pretty much every man woman and child who dips their toes into politics, regardless of the color of their skin Absolutely I did and I do. To be honest, I wasn't a member of any politics forum at that time, nor face book or twitter or any of the other social media gatherings. But I was watching you tube. I don't have TV. I apologize if I've upset you or anyone else here with my shit talking dog pile comments. But for those who are angry at Trump, then be angry at Trump. The people who voted Trump into office, did the best they could with what they had to work with. Edit; Forgive me, I'm still trying to teach myself how to do multi quotes and such.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 17, 2017 22:04:25 GMT -5
I apologize if I've upset you or anyone else here with my shit talking dog pile comments. But for those who are angry at Trump, then be angry at Trump. The people who voted Trump into office, did the best they could with what they had to work with. And here I'll agree with you, at least to a certain degree. I understand why some people voted Trump. Indeed, I know there were a good many who were bothered by many of the same things I was, and went there anyway because they were loyal Republicans, because they hoped much of the icky stuff was just a character he was assuming for reality TV and he'd pivot and become more presidential, and because they thought it would be interesting to see a businessman run the country instead of a politician. So yeah, I am definely not in the raging group who hates all people who voted Trump -- or, for that matter, hates the people who voted third party or anyone who voted for anyone but Hillary. My brother voted Trump. My cousin voted Trump. A huge heap of my friends voted third party, and I considered doing so myself. People had choices to make -- a lot of them didn't like any of their choices in 2016, and I actually do get that. So disagreeing with Trump voters is one thing. And hating Trump is one thing. But the only people I'm inclined to actually hate in the Trump-voting camp (as opposed to the man himself) are people who get really ugly. E.g., the ones who tell John McCain they're glad he has cancer because he criticized Trump. The people who cheered the guy who ran down those people in a car at Charlottesville. People who say horrible racist and sexist stuff. And the ones who voted for him HOPING he'd be racist, etc. (as opposed to hoping he'd pivot and be presidential). Those kind of people. But then, I don't like those kind of people period.
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Post by mikey on Oct 17, 2017 22:17:33 GMT -5
But then, I don't like those kind of people period. Well yeah, Those kind of people are icky no matter who they vote for. I'd like to think they are a very small minority of the population.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 17, 2017 22:41:23 GMT -5
But then, I don't like those kind of people period. Well yeah, Those kind of people are icky no matter who they vote for. I'd like to think they are a very small minority of the population. I like to think so, too. But alas, they're damn loud and damn ugly. I have a theory that many of the nasty accounts on twitter and social media are fake -- in other words, that a lot of nasty people have numerous fake sock puppet accounts all spewing nastiness. I just don't want to believe there are really that many horrible humans out there. I won't block people on Twitter for disagreeing with me (I make a point of following people from different perspectives, in fact), but I block them at the first hint of vicious troll. My block list is very long. A lot of people seem to be on Twitter solely to troll. It's depressing, really.
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