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Post by Deleted on Apr 13, 2018 15:22:46 GMT -5
you are confusing your opinion about Comey with indisputably true things that "everyone knew."
As a matter of fact, that is not my opinion of Coney at all, and I know a few people who worked with him directly who have the opposite opinion.
I was upset about him reopening the Clinton email thing because of the timing -- despising Trump as I do, I was terrified it would sway the election. Knowing everything we know now, reopening the investigation may not have been a great decision, but I tend to think it was made out of over-contientiousness rather than the reverse, based on the info he had at the time.
Do explain what he leaked and lied about. To note, I don't consider information he had a right to release or that was released according to proper procedures is "leaking." And IMO, that's what he did.
Re the cray cray...you know, it's possible to take the whole "hey, this all no big deal" stuff too far. I've been saying that often... but things have in fact kept getting increasingly more batshit in Trumpland. We are now, IMO, well into surreal and dangerous territory, and I can hardly believe things are the way they are. I know you and Mikey and c.e. may not agree, but I'll wager the rest of the forum and most of the country does. I give up trying to convince you. But I'll keep this thread going nonetheless.
What I'm expecting to happen, btw, to elevate us to the next level is an all guns ablazing attempt to stop the various investigations. I shall be surprised if he doesn't try to fire Rosenstein and Mueller.
ETA:
On Comey -- certainly it is the case that some partisans on both sides did ridiculous flip-flops on whether Comey was a saint or a demon, depending on his then-current actions, and on whether Clintonor Trump was suffering from them. That doesn't mean either side was correct in either instance.
I don't think he's a "saint" -- that's a strawman. What I do think is that he has a conscience, and I'll back his integrity against anyone currently in the White House.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 13, 2018 15:39:45 GMT -5
So, um, speaking of cray-cray...take it away Mr. President:
poor Gollum Trump is trying to satirize it; trouble is, it's pretty hard to get any crazier than Trump's real tweet. Nice effort, though:
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Post by robeiae on Apr 13, 2018 17:11:43 GMT -5
Do explain what he leaked and lied about. To note, I don't consider information he had a right to release or that was released according to proper procedures is "leaking." And IMO, that's what he did. www.nbcnews.com/politics/politics-news/who-daniel-richman-columbia-professor-who-leaked-comey-s-private-n769846That's leaking. People can argue that he was justified to their hearts content, but it's still leaking, imo. As to Comey lying, I think there are a shit-ton of accusations about such out there, dating back to people on the Dem side. So as I said, there are cases to be made, in this regard. And that's the point, really. One can't argue that Comey isn't a leaker and/or a liar as a matter of fact. Again, I think it obvious that he sucked at his job. He made a number of boneheaded choices. The fact that he became such a lightning rod for both sides at different points is evidence of this. And let's not forget, he bears some culpability for the shenanigans of FBI people like Strzok and Page (just as Trump bears culpability for the foolishness of some of his people). Semi-tangential side note: I've had just about enough of Facebook. Everyday when I check in, my feed is littered with shared memes and stories about Trump (today it was mostly Scooter Libby) with comments--from people whom I do respect and do consider friends--that border on the maniacal. I have many conservative friends, to be fair, who would toss up stuff about Obama. But in both volume and intensity (of the mania), there's no comparison. Obviously, these are just my friends and it is a small sample size, to be sure, but I do find it depressing. Anyway,I don't know what you want to convince me of? That Trump sucks? I agree, he does. That he's unsuited for the job of President? I've been saying that since he took office? That he's a dishonest grifter? Again, I've been saying that all along. That today--as opposed to yesterday--represents some sort of sea change for all of this? Well okay, you won't do that. Imo, Trump acts the same way he has always acted: as a self-interested, greedy, blowhard. It's as if were both a real estate developer and a reality TV star...
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Post by Deleted on Apr 13, 2018 17:53:04 GMT -5
I disagree entirely that becoming a lightning rod for both sides--especially in today's incredibly partisan environment-- means comey sucked at his job. As a matter of fact, it can mean the opposite -- if you try to be fair and impartial, you will inevitably piss off partisans on both sides at oneti.e or another. and your conclusion that he sucked at his job seems to be refuted by the fact that practically everyone who worked with him held him in high regard (including people I personally have known for many years and highly respect, which certainly, yes, sways me in his favor -- but I also think they have a shitload more information on which to base their conclusions, and based on the news, it seems that view was widely shared). Did he arguably make mistakes, or decisions that could be criticized? Sure. Show me someone who hasn't. I'm on my way out for the night, so will continue this tomorrow. As I recall, there was quite a bit of press about that "leak", and there was nothing in those memos he wasn't allowed to release. www.politifact.com/north-carolina/statements/2017/jun/09/north-carolina-republican-party/james-comey-hearings-did-former-fbi-director-admit/ETA: I mean sure, the word "leak" is used. But it's his own memo, contains no classified info, and he was perfectly with his rights to release it. So... yeah, I don't classify that in the same realm as a "leak" of info that is supposed to be classified or privileged.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 13, 2018 18:17:57 GMT -5
Time for one more! Report that Mueller has evidence that Cohen, contrary to his denials, was in Prague after all when the dossier says he was.
Is it bad that I'd rather stay in and follow the news than go out tonight? Yeah, I guess that's bad.
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Post by robeiae on Apr 14, 2018 10:03:07 GMT -5
Read your own link. Comey claims nothing classified was leaked, but that's only what he claims. If that's incorrect, then Comey lied in his testimony. But even if it is correct, I still think handing over memos detailing conversations with a sitting President to a friend so the friend can pass info to the press qualifies as leaking. And obviously so. Again, you can argue that it was justified, based on other things, but it's still leaking. You want to put "leak" in quotes, but Politifact doesn't do that, because there's no need.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 14, 2018 12:16:34 GMT -5
I'm pretty sure if he leaked something classified, privileged, or that he wasn't entitled to release, he'd be being prosecuted right now and investigators crawling all over him.
I have have a problem with people leaking classified information that could potentially jeopardize our country's security. I have no problem at all with the Comey scenario.
I also admit to sometimes being pro-leak, if our government officials are doing dishonest things/things that might hurt our country (as opposed to just stirring up trouble, trying to get attention, get a quick buck, gain some partisan advantage, revenge, etc.). I think one must be careful about it, and be sure one is doing the right thing for the right reasons, but that every once in a while, "leaking" is in fact downright patriotic. Deep Throat was a leaker.
IMO, here we had a president acting in a way that was deeply improper, and doing so in an attempt to shut down an appropriate investigation. Hell yes, I think Comey's "leak" was appropriate under those circumstances.
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Post by robeiae on Apr 16, 2018 7:30:53 GMT -5
I like Nate Silver's--who is hardly pro-Trump--take on Comey:
And I like the rebranding of his book as "A Higher Royalty."
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Post by Deleted on Apr 16, 2018 8:28:03 GMT -5
(This discussion may need its own thread if it goes on at any length, as it is off the track of whacky stuff happening in Trump world.)
I've pre-ordered Comey's book. I'd like to hear what he says about it.
To be clear, I never was and still am not happy about that decision. But making a bad call, even one with very bad repercussions, versus (1) doing so in bad faith or (2) being lousy at your job generally, are very different things.
it's also a buttload easier for us to sit in our armchairs and bitch about what an idiot the person is who had to make the call, than it is to be the one who makes the call.
As this story unfolds, I'm struck by the fact that apparently BOTH candidates had issues. I'd say Trumps were a good bit more serious. I'd also say that I, like nearly everyone else, thought Hillary was going to be our next president and therefore prior to the election I was more concerned with her issues. That's all changed now, of course, because Trump won. But I am not aure that it's an easy peasy call to make regarding what to investigate, what to announce you're investigating, and what to keep mum about.
I don't have trouble with criticisms that this was ultimately a bad call with bad consequences. I see a good argument for that. I have trouble with "he's a shit who was disrespected and lousy at his job generally" conclusions -- not only do I think there isn't sufficient foundation for them, I think there is plenty of evidence contradicting it.
ETA:
A take I find not unreasonable:
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Post by Deleted on Apr 17, 2018 8:44:06 GMT -5
A shitload of Trump World cray-cray happened yesterday. It'll take me a bit to catch up. Where to start?
As you may have heard, Michael Cohen, who is desperately trying to claim that his papers are privileged, reported to the court that he had all of three clients. Two of them were Trump and former RNC deputy chair of finance, Elliot Broidy, who paid a Playmate, who got pregnant and later had an abortion, 1.6M in hush money. The third was unnamed.
The judge wasn't having any of that, and insisted Cohen reveal the name of his alleged third client. And it turned out to be fucking Sean Hannity, who has been using his pulpit to scream about the raid on Cohen without disclosing that tidbit. You can't make this shit up.
And to make it even more fun, Hannity claims Cohen wasn't in fact his lawyer:
...but of course he still wants to claim attorney-client privilege for any of Cohen's documents relating to him.
Jesus Christ, these people are so dumb and so blatantly corrupt it's difficult to believe they're real sometimes.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 17, 2018 8:52:35 GMT -5
Nikki Haley announced new Russia sanctions, and guess who put the nix on them?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 17, 2018 17:53:33 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2018 16:43:29 GMT -5
So Rudy Guiliani is joining Trump's legal team. A video of the two discussing strategy:
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Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2018 18:29:01 GMT -5
To note, since Trump is pretty notorious for ignoring his attorneys, I doubt this will go well. But Rudy could give him good advice re the stuff in the SDNY, if Trump actually wanted to heed his advice.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 20, 2018 7:52:08 GMT -5
Holy crap, the story attached to this tweet is astounding. No wonder Trump won't release his tax returns. Reading it, I am terrified -- terrified -- that such an incredible liar and narcissistic is in the Oval Office. Holy crap.
Seriously, try to imagine any normal person doing all this just to try to give the impression he's 100 times richer than he actually is. (Yeah, I knew he was fibbing, but not to thus degree.)
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