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Post by celawson on Jan 15, 2019 13:21:04 GMT -5
So the Gillette company released a 1 minute 48 second video urging men to be the best that they can be. The reaction to it has been mixed, but,the negative is outweighing the positive by a large margin, at least if you read the comments on various articles about the video, and if you look at the video on YouTube where the thumbs up or down is.
Last night when I first watched the video the negatives were at 106K, and this morning they are at 347K down and 85K up, with over 4 million views.
I think it was probably stupid for a company to attack its base of customers. And yeah, to me, this video is an attack on men, and particularly white men, because almost all of the guys in it doing the bad stuff are white.
Lots of men are commenting they will never use Gillette products again.
I agree with the comment I read last night that said if Gillette had to go there, it could have shown examples of real men being the best that they can be, something positive and inspiring. Instead, they showed blatant fictitious stereotypes of the worst examples of male behavior. I found the entire thing to be patronizing, insulting, and obviously scolding. Is this how a company should treat its customers?
Honestly, what was Gillette thinking?
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Post by robeiae on Jan 15, 2019 13:46:06 GMT -5
Gillette was thinking--I think--that it while it would catch some heat for the ad, it would also score some points with more than half of the population, with the more socially conscious younger generation, and--more importantly--with the self-righteous activist crowd.
For a brand that is losing market share on a daily basis, it was a pretty big roll of the dice, I think. Many of its smaller competitors have jumped on this as a way to grab some new customers.
Check out this innocuous tweet (well played) and the comments that follow at Dollar Shave Club:
Personally, I'm completely over companies--whose sole purpose is to make a buck--engaging in this sort of stuff. Hell, I was over it when it first started happening.
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Post by markesq on Jan 15, 2019 14:19:03 GMT -5
I think these things are painfully transparent and get an eye-roll from me. What also gets an eye-roll is the poor offended chaps who just cannot hack being challenged or called out for shit they actually do.
I feel like I might be channeling Rob here when I lay down a big juicy "Meh" to both sides.
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Post by robeiae on Jan 15, 2019 14:25:52 GMT -5
Sure, I'm "meh" about the ad and about the people "offended" by it.
But...I think that if I worked for the company or owned stock in P&G, I'd be kinda pissed, as it seems to me that the campaign is sacrificing business for no real good reason. In contrast, if I owned Dollar Shave Club, I think I'd be thrilled to death with the campaign.
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Post by celawson on Jan 15, 2019 16:29:17 GMT -5
Wow, now the video is at over 5.8 million views and 412K thumbs down. Heh. I don't think it's only the toxic guys who hate this ad, BTW. I think plenty of upstanding men, many of whom are raising upstanding boys, are insulted by it.
EDITED TO ADD: OK, this is pretty funny:
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Post by Deleted on Jan 15, 2019 17:09:15 GMT -5
I think if a man is actively offended by it, maybe that says something about him. Like, he thinks the bad behavior it's showing is something he engages in and thinks is fine.
I don't care for preachy commercials (or hell, most commercials, but I digress...), so this one isn't necessarily my cup of tea, but as far as things to get offended by, this is past an eyeroll and well into "FFS."
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Post by celawson on Jan 15, 2019 18:18:33 GMT -5
I disagree. If a company for women, say, tampons or something like that, put out an ad admonishing women for acting bitchy at that time of the month and encouraging us to help each other be better, then I would be annoyed by that too. Especially since I work very hard to not let my hormones impact the way I treat people no matter what time of the month it is. And because I, as a woman, am their customer. And especially because they are a tampon company, not my life coach or family. It's very patronizing. I wouldn't be offended but I would be annoyed. Maybe even annoyed enough to switch brands.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 15, 2019 18:33:56 GMT -5
Amazing coincidence. Everything you've said is stuff I saw far right talking heads saying today, including the exact example of women "getting bitchy" at "that time of the month."
Women have dealt with generations of discrimination based on the stereotype that their hormones make them too unstable and bitchy (or otherwise too emotionally fragile) to handle positions of responsibility and power. That's a yuuuuge reasons why we have fewer women in positions of power. Every woman who has ever been in a position of power has dealt with this stereotype. I have, for sure.
And by the way, it's a fake stereotype. We don't all get unstable and bitchy, but we do all suffer from the stereotype.
White men have not been historically discriminated against and held back in the workforce because people think they are all bullies and racist. They do not all suffer from such a stereotype. Actually, white men (whom you and right wing media seem to think have been victimized by this) have always held an advantage in that regard. Seems like now that women and minorities are finally getting more of a foothold, white men have gotten extra sensitive.
Because, gotta say, the only guys I see whining about this ad so far are conservative white guys. Poor snowflakes. Oh, and a handful of conservative white women.
I don't love the ad, like I said, because in general I'd rather a commercial just sell the product and perhaps entertain me. But I'll be damned if I can sympathize with the kerfuffle. (And as a matter of fact, I don't think the kerfuffle is sincere, for the most part -- I think it's "see, we can get all outraged too! WE ARE THE REAL VICTIMS!) This ad doesn't in any way imply that all white men are racists and bullies. It doesn't imply that it's just this hormonal THING in white men they can't help having but that they can do their best to fight. It's nothing like saying "gee ladies, we know you all get hormonal and you can't help that, but don't take it out on your men folk."
ETA:
I think we can all agree that the behavior depicted in the ad happens, no? And that when it happens, it's bad?
What this would be like, IMO, is not your "hormonal women getting bitchy" ad. It would be like an ad showing, say, parents being abusive to their kids -- emotionally or physically. That doesn't imply all parents are abusive. And surely we can acknowledge that some parents are abusive and that when they are, that's bad. It could also depict some behavior that some parents might not realize is as harmful as it is --- constantly telling your kid they're stupid or fat, for example.
Would you think that parents should get up in arms and outraged by such a commercial?
Or perhaps a commercial about bad bosses who, e.g., yell at their employees or make impossible demands or don't pay them on time or whatever. Perhaps they might show behavior that is harmful to employees that perhaps some bosses don't stop to think about as harmful -- giving sloppy feedback or showing favoritism.
Should bosses get up in arms about that?
I say no, in both instances. Why? For one thing, because parents and bosses have not historically suffered from a stereotype that they all suck. Even if a few people do hold the view that all bosses and parents suck, this hasn't been something that has held them back and oppressed them. Nothing about either of those commercials would imply that ALL parents suck or that ALL bosses suck, and have to struggle against their inherent nature to not suck. Neither does the Gillette commercial imply that about men.
Whereas your "gee ladies, don't take your hormones out on your menfolk" most certainly WOULD make that implication about women. And that implication IS a stereotype that women have been fighting forever and are STILL fighting, and that most certainly has held us back.
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Post by celawson on Jan 15, 2019 19:04:06 GMT -5
Well that is a coincidence, because I haven't read any far right talking heads today, nor did I see anything about women being bitchy. Coincidences happen.
And I think plenty of good and honorable men suffer from the stereotypes in that commercial. They don't all catcall women or shush women in the workplace, or beat up each other, or bully. As a matter of fact, I'd venture to say the good ones outweigh the bad ones. But you'd never know it from that ad.
And women getting more of a foothold? In the U.S.? Jesus, they outnumber men in BOTH med school and law school, they're increasing exponentially in politics and business. Sorry if I'm not shedding tears for the lack of foothold here.
I don't like this new fad of hating men, especially white men. And I don't like this new fad of viewing masculinity as something negative. The Gillette ad just adds to the pile on, unfortunately.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 15, 2019 19:17:25 GMT -5
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Post by celawson on Jan 15, 2019 20:08:16 GMT -5
There does seem to be a trending increase in the number of women holding board positions, though maybe not CEO.
But honestly, there are so many factors that play into that besides some stereotype about PMS. We'd be venturing into James Damore memo territory here if I go into any more detail. But if that PMS analogy was used a lot today, it's probably because it's apt. Testosterone is a hormone. PMS is caused by hormones. Various male and female traits are influenced by hormones. No wonder I wasn't the only one who thought of that.
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Post by nighttimer on Jan 15, 2019 20:12:43 GMT -5
So the Gillette company released a 1 minute 48 second video urging men to be the best that they can be. The reaction to it has been mixed, but,the negative is outweighing the positive by a large margin, at least if you read the comments on various articles about the video, and if you look at the video on YouTube where the thumbs up or down is.
Last night when I first watched the video the negatives were at 106K, and this morning they are at 347K down and 85K up, with over 4 million views.
I think it was probably stupid for a company to attack its base of customers. And yeah, to me, this video is an attack on men, and particularly white men, because almost all of the guys in it doing the bad stuff are white.
Lots of men are commenting they will never use Gillette products again.
I agree with the comment I read last night that said if Gillette had to go there, it could have shown examples of real men being the best that they can be, something positive and inspiring. Instead, they showed blatant fictitious stereotypes of the worst examples of male behavior. I found the entire thing to be patronizing, insulting, and obviously scolding. Is this how a company should treat its customers?
Honestly, what was Gillette thinking?
Here's a better question: What are YOU thinking?
Personally, Gillette isn't making a lot of money off of me, but neither are the Dollar Shave Club or Harry's. Not since I grew a beard in 2018 and now I just edge it up and trim it myself between trips to the barber. Razors? Shaving gel? After shave. Nah. I'm good, bro.
But when I see posts like this on boards like this, I can't help but roll my eyes, sigh deeply and wonder why the absolute fuck does anyone give a good goddamn about a commercial that drags toxic masculinity? For a mommy with a daughter I sure don't get your priorities, celawson. It seems you put your right-wing, Fux News, phony-ass "controversy" of the moment above everything.
Sooooo...whatcha sayin?
You okay with guys whistling and hooting and hollering at your baby girl when she walks down the street commenting on her clothes, her legs, her tits, her ass and what they would like to do to and with them? '
You okay with your daughter being checked out by her boss at work or her teacher at school or her professor in the lecture hall? You okay with them commenting on how her butt looks in them jeans? It's all good if they brush up against her or squeeze her cheeks (the ones above the neck and below the waist)? You don't mind if they whisper in her ear, stroke her hair and cop a feel?
You fine and dandy if some guy wants to throw her a few bucks to take her top off? Or grind up against her reaaaaaaal slow? Or put a Japanese lip-lock on their bald-headed champ? Or let them slip their bacon in her frying pan?
I mean, I know you're good with grabbing 'em by the pussy. You've made that abundantly clear with your vote in 2016 and your faith and fidelity to All Things Trump. I'm just curious if how good you are with toxic masculinity. I'm curious if you're one of the mommies that don't mind if a man gets his freak on with yo' little darlin' but its all good because their last name rhymes with "Trump?"
How DARE Gillette tell men they should keep their dirty hands to themselves instead of putting them between a woman's legs like your prez? How DARE Gillette presume to have the elephant gonads to tell White men like your prez he shouldn't treat women like pieces of meat and not enjoy all the prerogatives that come with being able to stand up when peeing? How DARE Gillette suggest it's better to treat women like intelligent, proud and meaningful human beings instead of cum dumpsters?
How DARE they even imply men should be responsible and not put their penises where they aren't invited?
We aren't talking about a nearly month-long shutdown of the government on this board because President Pussygrabber couldn't get his Lego wall with Repubs in charge, so now he's demanding Dems pony up the cas for it. We aren't talking about the House of Representatives calling out a Republican Congresscritter who is an enthusiastic supporter of racism and White supremacy. We aren't talking about Trump's A.G. nominee who says the public will likely never get to read Robert Mueller's final report. We aren't talking about over 800,000 federal workers who aren't getting paid because of President Pussygrabber's tantrum We aren't talking about someone asking Trump if he worked for the Russians.
We aren't talking about how toxic masculinity enabled Bill Cosby for years when he drugged and raped mostly White women or R.Kelly because he seduced, kidnapped, pissed on and raped mostly underage and girls and women who are Black, because ermigawd, Gillette is making White Men look like bad guys who exploit and drug and sell and harass, embarrass, belittle, humiliate and ogle and grope and rape and fuck and suck and kill, so who cares about them? White Men should not be called out on for their bad behavior because...because...reasons.
We're talking about a fucking commercial that pissed off some right-wing snowflakes and you don't even shave. At least not your face. Because Brian Kilmeade and the rest of the morons of Fux and Friends got their panties in a wad and so did Joe Rogan and James Woods and Breitbart and all the other right-wing blowhards and fucktards who don't give a SHIT about anything that isn't about shouting SQUIRREL! knowing full well their legions of idiots who sit around waiting to be offended.
A company that makes razor blades makes a commercial that triggers right-wing wimps and now they're all in their feelings in a way since Colin Kaepernick briefly reappeared on their TV screens. Oh, the humanity!
I recall another commercial that triggered the Right sending them into spasms because of the terrible awful no good message it was sending.
Somehow the world survived the evils of MISCEGENATION! Here we are again. The thread's existence is the embodiment of White Bread Lame-Ass First World Problems and how easy it is to distract the shallow, the silly and the stupid with trivialities and absurdities and meaningless distractions that don't mean dick. Oh, and SNOWFLAKES!
Gillette was thinking--I think--that it while it would catch some heat for the ad, it would also score some points with more than half of the population, with the more socially conscious younger generation, and--more importantly--with the self-righteous activist crowd. For a brand that is losing market share on a daily basis, it was a pretty big roll of the dice, I think. Many of its smaller competitors have jumped on this as a way to grab some new customers. Check out this innocuous tweet (well played) and the comments that follow at Dollar Shave Club: Personally, I'm completely over companies--whose sole purpose is to make a buck--engaging in this sort of stuff. Hell, I was over it when it first started happening. What he said. I'm completely over people who lose their shit and fill their Fruit of the Looms because someone said something they can't handle.
Nice try, robeiae, but next time try just a smidge harder and mix in a few actual facts in to go along with the unsubstantiated opinion.
But good luck with the ZZ Top beard. You too, celawson.
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Post by Optimus on Jan 15, 2019 20:15:41 GMT -5
At first I didn't think much of it, but after watching it again I can see why some people didn't like it. I liked it less the second time I watched it because I noticed a bit more of the ideological bent bleeding through. For example, as has been pointed out, they claim it was about men being better, but instead of showing examples of men being better, they instead focused on men being horrible, and every single horrible man in the commercial just happened to be white (how unsurprising). They also used the ideological garbage term "toxic masculinity" which is nothing more than weaponized pseudoscience.
Call me cynical, but I'm with robiea and markesq on this point: when companies try to play politics like this by monetizing a cultural discussion, it usually gets a big eye roll from me. That seems to be one of the main issues I've read people are having with it, and while I don't think it's as big of a deal as some of them apparently do, I at least understand where some of them are coming from.
I've since updated my opinion of the commercial to "I get what they were doing, but they could've and should've done it a lot better" plus an eye roll and a shrug. It just doesn't really bother me that much.
As to the points above about Gillette losing marketshare to Dollar Shave Club and that this was likely a ploy to gain some back, I read something else that made that point earlier today, and I also echoed that in a FB post, so it seems that a lot of people are viewing this in that same way. "Get woke, go broke" is a bit cliche, but it's also an actual thing that has hurt several companies. Gillette seems like they're next up on that chopping block, but I'm not sure if this will hurt them too much in the long run. People have short memories. But, who knows?
However, I agree with markesq, and I give an even BIGGER eye roll to all the adult babies out there pitching a big fit about this as if they have been personally wounded by it. Yes, it was heavy-handed, appealing to an ideological position that the majority of the country disagrees with, and about as dumb as that Pepsi commercial with Kendall Jenner.
But, it's also really not a big deal and the commercial has a point buried beneath the SJW BS: it's true that the percentage of men who are awful and who embody the behaviors in the commercial is small, but the overwhelming majority of men who are not like that at all should be doing more to correct, if not silence, the bad behavior of that small minority.
Most guys aren't awful, but an awful lot of them aren't speaking out when they see guys who are.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 15, 2019 20:22:24 GMT -5
I'll also note that as serious societal problems go, women getting hormonal on their periods and being bitchy to menfolk is...not one. The behavior in the Gillette commercial is.
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Post by nighttimer on Jan 15, 2019 20:33:02 GMT -5
Wow, now the video is at over 5.8 million views and 412K thumbs down. Heh. I don't think it's only the toxic White guys who hate this ad, BTW. I think plenty of upstanding White men, many of whom are raising upstanding White boys, are insulted by it.
Never mind that the very first man in the commercial isn't a toxic White guy at all. Don't let the facts get in the way of a perfectly good rant.
I fixed it for you. That's what men do. We fix things. Even things that ain't broke. You're welcome.
Good to know I'm not the only one around here who can be accused of viewing everything through a lens based on race.
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