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Post by robeiae on Nov 3, 2020 7:35:39 GMT -5
I don't know. I admit that I think I may be overly optimistic, though. I'm really unsure of reality, here. All these pollsters saying Biden's out in front, the betting odds are waaaay in his favor, pundits predicting a big win for him, and I want to accept it all (even though I think Biden is a shitshow, just not nearly as big of one as Trump), yet in accepting it all, I feel like I'm getting played, that it's a big sham and Trump is going to roll. Honestly, this is the worst read I've ever had on an election.
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Post by Optimus on Nov 3, 2020 11:03:52 GMT -5
Speaking of electoral votes: The Electoral College, explainedJesus H. Christ. It's been the system since day one of the USA. It's not bizarre and it's not a Frankenstein's monster. It makes perfect sense to anyone who has, you know, gone to school and learned American History (which doesn't mean one has to agree with it and the "why" behind its creation). Idiot. It's not a Frankenstein's monster, for sure. But it is an outdated, antiquated horse shit mechanism that needs to be abolished. And, yes, I have gone to school and have studied American history and government. It's "been the system since day one of the USA" (although it was actually 1787, rather than 1785 and was later amended in 1804 and not all States really got on board until at least 1824...so, not actually "day one") because it was literally created to prevent an actual "majority vote of the people" from electing the President. At the time of the US's founding, very few (if any) major world powers had democratically-elected leaders. It was monarchism and despotism mostly. About half of the Founding Fathers / Framers / "whatever one wants to call them" wanted a group of elites to pick the President, the other half (influenced heavily by Madison) preferred a popular vote. However, all were concerned that "uneducated" farmers and slaves (who were viewed to not be capable of being informed enough to make the "right" decision) would unduly influence a popular vote (especially in the South) and pick the "wrong" person. So, the Electoral College was a compromise that alloted electors based on each state's population (invoking the notoriously atrocious "three-fifths clause"). As all the electors were, at that time, selected by the State Legislatures, this assured that the elites still controlled the outcome while giving the (arguably false) veneer to the proceedings that they were somehow still democratic and representative of the people. This system was literally created to prevent the people from actually having a voice because the people were viewed as being too stupid to make the "right" choice. The people (i.e., those unwashed masses of supposedly ignorant farmers and slaves) were viewed as too dumb and uneducated to vote correctly. All modern defenses of this system as somehow being "genius" and good seem to ignorant of its actual history and purpose and are mostly regurgitations of half-understood conservative talking points. And, to the lame "it allows people in rural areas to not be ruled by the urban majority!" defenses of it, the rural citizens are already assured fair representation in the House and (arguably) the Senate. The Electoral College is antiquated garbage and needs to be tossed into the dustbin of history ASAP.
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Post by robeiae on Nov 3, 2020 11:11:39 GMT -5
I agree with your analysis of the "why" behind the Electoral College, and I'm okay with the idea of abolishing it,* though I'm not sure I favor a straight popular vote election for the Presidency.
But again, my point is that it's not difficult to understand, it works how it's supposed to work, and it sure as shit isn't something that should need explaining to the vast majority of the electorate.
* Abolishing it is something that needs to be done correctly, as per the Constitution, not via clever maneuverings and legal challenges, just as is the case for the Second Amendment.
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Post by Optimus on Nov 3, 2020 11:19:07 GMT -5
I agree with your analysis of the "why" behind the Electoral College, and I'm okay with the idea of abolishing it,* though I'm not sure I favor a straight popular vote election for the Presidency. But again, my point is that it's not difficult to understand, it works how it's supposed to work, and it sure as shit isn't something that should need explaining to the vast majority of the electorate. To be fair, the Founding Fathers weren't too far off in thinking that a lot of the citizenry are likely irredeemably stupid. True. It'd have to be done by Constitutional amendment (to overturn both the bit in the main document about it and also the 12th amendment) to officially abolish it. The more feasible workaround is for all 50 states to do what a few states already have, which is to change their electoral allotments from "winner take all" to proportional.
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Post by robeiae on Nov 3, 2020 11:20:49 GMT -5
Which is worse, irredeemably stupid or irretrievably stupid?
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Post by robeiae on Nov 3, 2020 12:37:26 GMT -5
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Post by robeiae on Nov 3, 2020 12:55:46 GMT -5
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Post by Optimus on Nov 3, 2020 13:07:20 GMT -5
Isn't every Presidential election touted as "the most important in history?"
I've grown weary of that hyperbolic cliche being trotted out every 4 years.
Today is the most important election in (the) history (of the current Tuesday).
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Post by prozyan on Nov 3, 2020 14:17:03 GMT -5
Yeah, I just can't wrap my head around Biden winning. I know what all the polls and pundits say but....I see Trump with 50k+ people at his rallies, people literally standing out in the rain and cold just for a chance to get in, miles long "Trump Parades" (we had a 7-mile long one in my local area), and so on. Maybe even with all that Biden wins, but I don't see a double digit lead.
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Post by Vince524 on Nov 3, 2020 15:55:57 GMT -5
Yeah, I just can't wrap my head around Biden winning. I know what all the polls and pundits say but....I see Trump with 50k+ people at his rallies, people literally standing out in the rain and cold just for a chance to get in, miles long "Trump Parades" (we had a 7-mile long one in my local area), and so on. Maybe even with all that Biden wins, but I don't see a double digit lead. True, I think those behind Biden are less enthusiastic and possibly many holding their nose, but with early voting and mail in ballots, it might not matter was much. Plus one could theorize that only the Trump voters are dumb enough to go to a rally (Or as some call it, a Covid Giveaway) during a pandemic because they believe the power of Trump will heal them.
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Post by michaelw on Nov 3, 2020 18:14:46 GMT -5
Isn't every Presidential election touted as "the most important in history?" Yep, sure seems that way. I guess, "Get out and vote, people... this is the third most important election in history" just doesn't have the same punch.
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Post by robeiae on Nov 3, 2020 18:59:57 GMT -5
Hey, it's not like it's 1828...
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Post by robeiae on Nov 3, 2020 21:40:21 GMT -5
F.......
Betting odds just swung to Trump.
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Post by prozyan on Nov 3, 2020 21:57:52 GMT -5
If you pay attention to this sort of thing, S&P futures just recently shot up 50 points, which would indicate a feeling that Trump will emerge victorious.
Heh, make that 100 points.
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Post by robeiae on Nov 3, 2020 22:12:54 GMT -5
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