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Post by robeiae on Dec 19, 2016 7:58:51 GMT -5
When Bush beat Gore, there was actually a Thing, wherein many people were supposedly seeking professional help (psychiatric help, not hit-man help) to cope with the trauma of the loss. I think there was a small flare up of it in 2004/2005, as well.
But Amadan has my point exactly right. I don't know if it's millenials, and I don't really care.
And frankly, there's nothing thoughtful or helpful about this constant woe-is-me-ing, nor is there much of anything thoughtful or helpful about constantly stating how awful Trump is, sometimes just out of the blue.
My goal--such as it is--is to have a discussion on this aspect of the post-election world. And yeah, I'm pretty critical of it, mostly because I'm really tired of seeing is on display, from social media, to news sits, to TV.
You know, TBS pushes Samantha Bee like there's no tomorrow. And every fucking commercial for her show has her saying something negative about Trump. Those spots are airing multiple times a day, every day of the week. Spots for other talk shows aren't much different.
And I get it to an extent: Trump provides a lot of red meat for comedians. I certainly don't think he should be off limits. But come on. He's going to be President. There's no need to constantly run him down in the ads, is there?
And that's the other, ugly side of this woe-is-meeing, I think.
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Post by Christine on Dec 19, 2016 8:15:58 GMT -5
I don't get Samantha Bee at all, though I only watched her once. I found her too unsubtle and ragey to be funny. (SNL and John Oliver do a much better job, imo.)
I get the feeling that you'd like people to have more respect for Trump. If so, I'm unsympathetic to that. Possibly because in my circles people have talked shit about Obama and Hillary for the last 8 years. They are politicians. It's going to happen.
That said, and like RT mentioned, I promise to give Trump credit where credit is due. I already have one nice thing to say about him, too: He personally seems very pro-LGBT. He's liberal in this regard, as far as I can see. And I have hope that if his VP or some in his Cabinet or in Congress want to allow discrimination on that front or try to overturn gay marriage or whatever, he'll shoot it down in Trump fashion.
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Post by Rolling Thunder on Dec 19, 2016 8:27:05 GMT -5
Trump will have to earn respect, given the methodology of his campaign.
But, as far as comedy goes, at some point we will all grow sick of constant Trump bashing, even those who dislike him.
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Post by robeiae on Dec 19, 2016 8:38:37 GMT -5
I get the feeling that you'd like people to have more respect for Trump. If so, I'm unsympathetic to that. Possibly because in my circles people have talked shit about Obama and Hillary for the last 8 years. They are politicians. It's going to happen. I have plenty of negative things, even disrespectful things, to say about Trump. I've said them. And I still say them. It is what it is. What I'd like is a little more substance to go along with the bashing and the woe-is-meeing, and a lot less fire-bombing of people who aren't "all in" on these two topics. Especially in the media, where there is supposed to be some level of professionalism.
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Post by Amadan on Dec 19, 2016 8:55:00 GMT -5
I get the feeling that you'd like people to have more respect for Trump. If so, I'm unsympathetic to that. Possibly because in my circles people have talked shit about Obama and Hillary for the last 8 years. They are politicians. It's going to happen. ETA - Bugger, what happened here? I had a whole post written and all that appeared was what I quoted. :\
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Post by Vince524 on Dec 19, 2016 9:04:00 GMT -5
I get both sides really.
The idea that Trump could be elected, a man who not only doesn't fit into a political norm of what a president should be, a man who's words are divisive, childish, boorish, and a lot of other ish's, a man who still hasn't truly defined his vision for the country beyond making it great again, is pretty upsetting. People tend to read a lot into Trump, stuff that drives the left crazy and the altright into elation. They're actually seeing the same things potentially in him, the difference is one fears and loathes it, the other celebrates it.
On the other hand, people have also gone around the bend. A coworker posted on FB a few days after the election that a young black girl was worried Trump was going to bring slavery back and asked her friend to buy her. A cousin of my wife's sais his daughter who is part Hispanic was afraid she was going to be deported, even though she was born here, her parents was born here and her grandparents were either born here or legally immigrated decades ago. At what point did Trump say anything that indicated he was for slavery coming back, or deporting people simply because they were Hispanic. The hysteria has reached a fever pitch.
I'll also admit to being less than sympathetic because we were told Romney was racist and dangerous with his binders full of women. Same with McCain who was a war hero and liked by many on the left until he dared oppose the Chosen One. While Trump certainly fits the bill much better than the others, it's annoying when that's all you've been hearing.
And of course, both Obama's are now being sainted. Including Michelle. I like her, I think she's been a wonderful 1st lady, but I saw something the other day that said she's shown more grace that Jackie O. I'm like, why are we putting Jackie O in a bad light?
BTW is there any wine left?
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Post by Christine on Dec 19, 2016 9:11:54 GMT -5
I get the feeling that you'd like people to have more respect for Trump. If so, I'm unsympathetic to that. Possibly because in my circles people have talked shit about Obama and Hillary for the last 8 years. They are politicians. It's going to happen. I have plenty of negative things, even disrespectful things, to say about Trump. I've said them. And I still say them. It is what it is. What I'd like is a little more substance to go along with the bashing and the woe-is-meeing, and a lot less fire-bombing of people who aren't "all in" on these two topics. Especially in the media, where there is supposed to be some level of professionalism. That seems a very reasonable thing to want.
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Post by Amadan on Dec 19, 2016 10:10:20 GMT -5
I have seen a lot of posts (elsewhere) about how we absolutely must not "accept" this as "the new normal." The idea being that Trump is so far outside the norm, we must not accept that he is the President or that anything he does is legitimate. Because this is the only way to stop the coming Reich.
For the past eight years, much of the GOP made it their number one priority to obstruct anything Obama did, just because he was Obama. Implicitly rejecting the idea that he was a legitimately elected POTUS. And they were widely reviled (especially on the Left) for being such dicks.
Now the entire Left is advocating we do the same thing to Trump. I am not saying he should be given respect just because he was elected, or that people should make nice, or give him a honeymoon period, or anything but resistance to his stupid ideas. But he's the President and trying to pretend he isn't, or render the Executive Branch non-functional because you don't acknowledge its legitimacy, is not going to put the country back on its rails.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 19, 2016 11:35:02 GMT -5
I get both sides really.
The idea that Trump could be elected, a man who not only doesn't fit into a political norm of what a president should be, a man who's words are divisive, childish, boorish, and a lot of other ish's, a man who still hasn't truly defined his vision for the country beyond making it great again, is pretty upsetting. People tend to read a lot into Trump, stuff that drives the left crazy and the altright into elation. They're actually seeing the same things potentially in him, the difference is one fears and loathes it, the other celebrates it.
On the other hand, people have also gone around the bend. A coworker posted on FB a few days after the election that a young black girl was worried Trump was going to bring slavery back and asked her friend to buy her. A cousin of my wife's sais his daughter who is part Hispanic was afraid she was going to be deported, even though she was born here, her parents was born here and her grandparents were either born here or legally immigrated decades ago. At what point did Trump say anything that indicated he was for slavery coming back, or deporting people simply because they were Hispanic. The hysteria has reached a fever pitch.
I'll also admit to being less than sympathetic because we were told Romney was racist and dangerous with his binders full of women. Same with McCain who was a war hero and liked by many on the left until he dared oppose the Chosen One. While Trump certainly fits the bill much better than the others, it's annoying when that's all you've been hearing.
And of course, both Obama's are now being sainted. Including Michelle. I like her, I think she's been a wonderful 1st lady, but I saw something the other day that said she's shown more grace that Jackie O. I'm like, why are we putting Jackie O in a bad light?
BTW is there any wine left?
Agree. And I will always save some wine for you, Vince. I have seen a lot of posts (elsewhere) about how we absolutely must not "accept" this as "the new normal." The idea being that Trump is so far outside the norm, we must not accept that he is the President or that anything he does is legitimate. Because this is the only way to stop the coming Reich. For the past eight years, much of the GOP made it their number one priority to obstruct anything Obama did, just because he was Obama. Implicitly rejecting the idea that he was a legitimately elected POTUS. And they were widely reviled (especially on the Left) for being such dicks. Now the entire Left is advocating we do the same thing to Trump. I am not saying he should be given respect just because he was elected, or that people should make nice, or give him a honeymoon period, or anything but resistance to his stupid ideas. But he's the President and trying to pretend he isn't, or render the Executive Branch non-functional because you don't acknowledge its legitimacy, is not going to put the country back on its rails. Agree. I HATE many of the tactics the GOP has used over the last eight years to obstruct Obama just to obstruct Obama. I seethe in fury when I think of Merrick Garland. But I won't like them any better when Democrats use them. If they're blocking something genuinely awful (e.g., measures to deport Muslims, a Supreme Court judge who belongs to the KKK) that's one thing. Absolutely, block away. I will cheer, and I would hope some Republicans would join in. But if it's blocking every qualified judge he tries to appoint simply because they're conservative and appointed by Trump...yeah, I won't be on board. Even if I am not crazy about the appointee myself, which is likely to be the case. If Democrats want to say "well, they did it, so now we will," I can't stop 'em. But in doing so, they will lose any moral high ground to claim that Republicans are wrong to do it. It is still boggling me that the same people who swooned when Trump threatened not to accept close election results stomped their feet and refused to accept the election results when Trump won -- and yet saw no inconsistency and no hypocrisy in their own behavior. If it is wrong when the other side does it, it's wrong for us to do it. You can't demand others play by rules you don't follow. This is something we should absorb in kindergarten. ETA: By the same token? It is a bit rich of GOPers who gleefully cheered every block on Obama to now whine when Democrats now do the same to Trump. A good long look in the mirror is in order. IMO, far too many partisans behave like whining, hypocritical, spiteful children. I'm tired of the tit-for-tat -- and I'm tired of partisans claiming their own side doesn't engage in it when they demonstrably do.
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Post by celawson on Dec 19, 2016 11:51:26 GMT -5
That's all well and good, but I think there's a difference between disagreeing with a specific opinion about a specific issue, and posting a single opinion piece to "showcase" how silly people are for being upset about Trump. How is this thread helpful? Newsflash: people are going to be upset about Trump as president for the next four years, regardless. Same as we can say to them, "get over it," I'm saying on this, "get over it." Because honestly, I seriously doubt this thread was about anything meaningful, other than to issue a verdict of "fangirling" and "narcissistic." In the instances where Rob and others have made the case for Trump/GOP decisions, such as Trump cabinet picks: That is focusing on the issues and countering possibly distorted views of reality in a meaningful way, imo. I think Robo has a larger point, even though he is calling the opinion piece narcissitic and fangirlish, that is helpful here. It goes back to Michelle Obama. She's our First Lady, and I think she did a grave disservice to half of the country by wallowing with them right now. She's the wife of our current POTUS, and if she agrees there's no hope, plenty of people will feel validated. But the thing is...THERE IS HOPE. Hope is a choice. Hope comes from action not wallowing. Hope is something she could have inspired in that interview. The actions that could bring hope during this time for her side of the political spectrum is something she could have elucidated. Her comments could have brought light, not dark. For God's sake, I heard an interview on NPR the other day with a man in Aleppo, talking to the interviewer while we could hear the bombs hit near his building. And he was asked that very question - are you out of hope? And HE said there is always hope. So no, Michelle, I'm sorry but you blew it. And this opinion piece also blew it. And I do agree it's not only worthless, but it's damaging. And that's why it's a good idea to call them on it (Michelle and this opinion writer). When people have the visibility that Michelle and an opinion writer on an international news organization have, they not only have an opportunity, they have a responsibility. Too bad they squandered it.
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Post by Vince524 on Dec 19, 2016 13:04:50 GMT -5
Agree. I HATE many of the tactics the GOP has used over the last eight years to obstruct Obama just to obstruct Obama. I seethe in fury when I think of Merrick Garland. But I won't like them any better when Democrats use them. If they're blocking something genuinely awful (e.g., measures to deport Muslims, a Supreme Court judge who belongs to the KKK) that's one thing. Absolutely, block away. I will cheer, and I would hope some Republicans would join in. But if it's blocking every qualified judge he tries to appoint simply because they're conservative and appointed by Trump...yeah, I won't be on board. Even if I am not crazy about the appointee myself, which is likely to be the case. If Democrats want to say "well, they did it, so now we will," I can't stop 'em. But in doing so, they will lose any moral high ground to claim that Republicans are wrong to do it. It is still boggling me that the same people who swooned when Trump threatened not to accept close election results stomped their feet and refused to accept the election results when Trump won -- and yet saw no inconsistency and no hypocrisy in their own behavior. If it is wrong when the other side does it, it's wrong for us to do it. You can't demand others play by rules you don't follow. This is something we should absorb in kindergarten. ETA: By the same token? It is a bit rich of GOPers who gleefully cheered every block on Obama to now whine when Democrats now do the same to Trump. A good long look in the mirror is in order. IMO, far too many partisans behave like whining, hypocritical, spiteful children. I'm tired of the tit-for-tat -- and I'm tired of partisans claiming their own side doesn't engage in it when they demonstrably do. They're both full of it. They only see obstruction as a bad thing when the other side does it. They only see the partisanship as bad when it's done on the other side.
If Clinton had won, I'd bet you would have seen the right willing to get Merrick Garland in as he would have been far better than anyone Hillary who wanted a Supreme Court that actively legislated a liberal agenda from the bench.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 19, 2016 13:27:05 GMT -5
They're both full of it. They only see obstruction as a bad thing when the other side does it. They only see the partisanship as bad when it's done on the other side. Agree. As I see it, if you want to play "they did it, we will too" game, well, I don't much like it, but not much I can do about it. But at least don't try to pretend it's not happening. The "not my president! I don't accept he won!" stuff made me downright ashamed. And I say this as someone who hoped with all her heart Clinton would win and still can't quite believe Trump did. But he did.
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Post by ben on Dec 19, 2016 16:18:02 GMT -5
This thread looks like the same old stuff I read on Facebook, but the title reminds me of the "If by whiskey" speech.
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Post by Amadan on Dec 19, 2016 18:29:49 GMT -5
Donald Trump is not my president and he never will be. If you are U.S. citizen, as of today he is your president.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 19, 2016 18:41:32 GMT -5
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