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Post by robeiae on Dec 18, 2016 16:28:56 GMT -5
I was just on Facebook a few moments ago. A status update from a friend was at the top of the feed, and it was inviting comments. It said something like "Trump voters, how do you feel about how things have gone since the election?" Now, I have nothing against the friend in question. In fact, I think she was honestly asking the question, hoping to hear some Trump supporters offer some mild mea culpas. Instead, what she got were friends who were not Trump supporters making comments. Easy enough to guess how those went. And it's par for the course right now. Every day, I scroll through the stories at CNN and at RCP, any without fail, the opinion pieces are woe-is-me-ing the election (still) or woe-is-me-ing the coming four years. And they're all built around a series of assumptions about how the ideas therein are consistent with the way everyone else must be feeling. And now, the panegyrics for the Obama admin--as a point of comparison--are starting to appear. Look at this piece: www.cnn.com/2016/12/16/opinions/michelle-obama-future-filipovic/index.htmlThere simply nothing there. It opens with Michelle Obama's recent statement, assumes it's a near-universal feeling, then goes into full-bore fangirl mode. It gushes and gushes, but says absolutely nothing of any import. And it ends with the now-typical narcissism of so many journalists these days. Thoughts? Am I being to hard on the piece?
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Post by Christine on Dec 18, 2016 17:09:40 GMT -5
Yeah, I think you are.
Millions of people are upset with Trump as PEOTUS. No, it's not "near-universal," but it's pretty prevalent, and with good reason, imo.
You kind of need to let them feel that way. Maybe this opinion piece doesn't say much to you, but it is an opinion piece, after all. Also, mocking it by calling it fangirling and narcissism on the part of the author doesn't "say anything" either. At least, nothing helpful. JMO.
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Post by robeiae on Dec 18, 2016 17:58:16 GMT -5
People can feel however they want to feel. Indeed, my feelings are that this extended bout of hand wringing angst over a Presidential election is somewhat infuriating.
And sorry, but ending the piece with the "bottomless well of hopelessness" shtick reflects some serious narcissism, imo. That's not mocking. That's evaluating. Trump displays an awful lot of narcissism, to be sure, and pointing that out is fair game. So it should be fair game elsewhere. Gosse, gander, and all that.
Regardless, I appreciate a different point of view. I guess I'm having a hard time understanding the fundamental point of the piece, aside from "yay, Michelle."
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Post by Don on Dec 18, 2016 18:06:38 GMT -5
Yeah, that was Pretty Deplorable TM , robeiae . I mean, after all, Jill plainly laid out a number of things that Michelle Obama could do to give her Hope TM in the future. I personally think Jill would be better served by focusing on the things that Jill could do to give her Hope TM in the future, instead of wondering how a retired politician's wife is going to do that for her. I find it terribly, terribly sad that anyone feels they have more chance of improving their own lives through the uncontrollable actions of the wife of a retired politician than by their own efforts, and relies on someone who doesn't even know her name to "throw her out a lifeline."
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Post by Christine on Dec 18, 2016 18:09:09 GMT -5
(to Rob) So, you're handwringing over their handwringing?
What's the point?
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Post by Don on Dec 18, 2016 18:10:23 GMT -5
So, you're handwringing over their handwringing? What's the point? It's a political forum. Isn't handwringing over handwringing the whole point?
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Post by Christine on Dec 18, 2016 18:16:20 GMT -5
Unpossible!
*wrings dishcloth*
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Post by Don on Dec 18, 2016 18:20:42 GMT -5
Unpresidented, too!
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Post by Amadan on Dec 18, 2016 18:44:46 GMT -5
I was just on Facebook a few moments ago. A status update from a friend was at the top of the feed, and it was inviting comments. It said something like "Trump voters, how do you feel about how things have gone since the election?" Now, I have nothing against the friend in question. In fact, I think she was honestly asking the question, hoping to hear some Trump supporters offer some mild mea culpas. Instead, what she got were friends who were not Trump supporters making comments. Easy enough to guess how those went. And it's par for the course right now. Every day, I scroll through the stories at CNN and at RCP, any without fail, the opinion pieces are woe-is-me-ing the election (still) or woe-is-me-ing the coming four years. And they're all built around a series of assumptions about how the ideas therein are consistent with the way everyone else must be feeling. And now, the panegyrics for the Obama admin--as a point of comparison--are starting to appear. Look at this piece: www.cnn.com/2016/12/16/opinions/michelle-obama-future-filipovic/index.htmlThere simply nothing there. It opens with Michelle Obama's recent statement, assumes it's a near-universal feeling, then goes into full-bore fangirl mode. It gushes and gushes, but says absolutely nothing of any import. And it ends with the now-typical narcissism of so many journalists these days. Thoughts? Am I being to hard on the piece? Jill Filopovic is not a "journalist." She's a columnist. She got her start with Feministing, and is in the same clique as Amanda Marcotte and Jessica Valente, affluent and privileged feminists whining about how oppressed they are and everyone who thinks differently than them is pure evil. Their crowd is in large part responsible for my turning to the anti-SJW dark side over the past few years.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 18, 2016 18:52:25 GMT -5
That's just never going to get old.
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Post by Christine on Dec 18, 2016 19:10:01 GMT -5
Jill Filopovic is not a "journalist." She's a columnist. She got her start with Feministing, and is in the same clique as Amanda Marcotte and Jessica Valente, affluent and privileged feminists whining about how oppressed they are and everyone who thinks differently than them is pure evil. Their crowd is in large part responsible for my turning to the anti-SJW dark side over the past few years. Interesting. I do not know this person (have never read any of her previous articles that I'm aware of) and did not pick up on anything to this effect in the article. Great thoughtful political discussion though.
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Post by Rolling Thunder on Dec 18, 2016 19:12:23 GMT -5
What always gets me about these types of articles is the solid fact that millions, which includes women, voted for Trump.
Hope is both heads and tails of the same coin.
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Post by Christine on Dec 18, 2016 19:19:37 GMT -5
What always gets me about these types of articles is the solid fact that millions, which includes women, voted for Trump. Hope is both heads and tails of the same coin. I watched State of the Union today (I do like Jake Tapper, and decided to tune in after a month of eschewing cable news), and Van Jones said the same thing. The panel discussion was about the First Lady's remark that (paraphrasing) "this is what no hope feels like." Jones pointed out that for many Americans, this *is* what hope feels like. It was well said. It is a fact that many people voted for Trump. It is also a fact that many people are horrified by Trump. I'm in the latter group, but I'm trying really hard to not mock the former group. ETA: I admit, it can feel a bit cathartic to just call everyone who voted for Trump "stupid" (as I imagine it can feel good to call everyone who is horrified by Trump "handwringers")--but only to a certain point. Reality intrudes as reality tends to do. Here at TCG, I fancy we focus on reality and not so much on how other people may not be doing so in our opinion. Is that.... too fanciful of me?
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Post by robeiae on Dec 18, 2016 20:13:17 GMT -5
I'd like to teach the world to sing, in perfect harmony.
Regardless of who Miss Filopovic is, I find the piece emblematic of a more general point of view, a point of view of course that anyone can reasonably have, yet one that many feel the need to express constantly, as if it's cathartic.
True enough, I don't have to read such pieces, and I could avoid social media altogether, or take the drastic step of unfriending/unfollowing people who are a part of the trend I'm seeing. But that's not my style. I'd rather talk about it and point out the problems I believe it is engendering, truth be told, because I think supposing that its above criticism is dragging down honest discussion across the board. Right now on places like Facebook, I'm finding it to be the case that any opinion offered on Trump, his actions, or anything related to him that isn't strongly critical often leads to immediate retaliation.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 18, 2016 20:18:56 GMT -5
Here at TCG, I fancy we focus on reality and not so much on how other people may not be doing so in our opinion. Is that.... too fanciful of me? Focusing on reality is what I at least like to try to do. Of course, looking at how others are perceiving reality can be part of understanding what's going on. Sometimes it's quite clear when someone's reality consists of distorted, false, or cherry-picked information; sometimes it's just a matter of different experiences, some of which might shed a useful light. And sometimes it takes a bit of work to sort out. I like to at least consider when my own reality might be distorted or missing something. And right now, when IMO a lot of people on both sides seem to be wallowing in a distorted view of reality in one way or another, I like to give some consideration to whether that's true, to what extent it's true, and what effect it is having. Right now on places like Facebook, I'm finding it to be the case that any opinion offered on Trump, his actions, or anything related to him that isn't strongly critical often leads to immediate retaliation. Agree. I voted Clinton. All my friends know that, and they know I dislike Trump and have a good many worries about his presidency. Yet with some friends, I've found if I say anything that falls short of utter (IMO somewhat hysterical) condemnation of Trump and the darkest possible view of what he'll do, I get lambasted, and far too often, accused of making points I didn't even come close to making. I find that sad in a hilarious kind of way, given how very pessimistic I'm feeling! I've stopped talking politics with a lot of people for that reason. Thank God I'm not on Facebook anymore! One thing I think we are doing here, so far, anyway, is at least trying to bring more calmness to the conversation.
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