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Post by robeiae on Dec 20, 2016 8:19:25 GMT -5
I prefer "my liege."
In fact, I'd just as soon have everyone address me in that fashion from now on.
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Post by Amadan on Dec 20, 2016 9:35:30 GMT -5
When I was in the military I was told, "Respect the office if you can't respect the man who holds the office." When I was in the military that was the way I saw it, but that was a long time ago and I don't respect this man holding this office. Not THIS time. “The power of the white world is threatened whenever a black man refuses to accept the white world's definitions.”~ James BaldwinThis Black man does not accept your definition. I respect the Office of the Presidency and the need to carry on with the task of governing. Which includes making use of all available democratic remedies to actions by an office holder who also happens to be terrible for that position. You don't have to accept anything. But he's in the office and he has all the powers of that office and everyone, white or black, has to deal with it. That has nothing to do with definitions. It's reality.
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Post by Amadan on Dec 20, 2016 9:43:52 GMT -5
I see it as a linguistic hangover from the days when people were property and ruled by the "divine right" of kings. "My King, My Lord, My Master." It was chattel all the way down. A possessive term such as "My" made perfect sense in those days. As you pointed out, these days "my" (generic overseer term) is generally reserved for those directly above us in the chain of command, except in this weird case of political "representatives." "My President" is an appropriate term of address only if one considers themselves part of the holdings of USA, inc. I see it as an unintentional abdication of self-ownership. There is no possessive relationship either way between a government and its citizens, IF the citizens are truly free. The government is supposedly there as an arbitrator among those with different values, not the director of individuals' actions. OTOH, if one's life is micro-managed to the n th degree, I suppose it's quite appropriate to refer to "my government" or "my president," just as one refers to "my boss," because there's an intensely personal relationship there, whether you've entered into it willingly or not. Anyway, neither Obama nor Trump are "my" anything to me. As a linguist, Don (well, I was a linguistics major once, long ago, and I still work in the field peripherally) - your theory is nonsense. Sometimes the libertarian lens through which you see every human interaction distorts things in ridiculous ways. That is neither the linguistic nor the historical providence of the term "my president." It has no more to do with lingering monarchism and chattelry than "My boss" or "My supervisor" or "My department head" or "My local bank manager." It's true in day to day life, Americans usually refer to "The president" or maybe "Our president," and one would not say "My president" except in very formal situations, or in way intended to imply respect. The exception being if you were speaking to a non-American and discussing your respective world leaders. But the answer to "Who is your president?" is a grammatical construct, not an oath of fealty,
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Post by Deleted on Dec 20, 2016 10:40:19 GMT -5
You can certainly say Trump isn't president, but as far as I can see, it doesn't get you anything. I can deny the earth orbits the solar system's center of mass (happy, Optimus ?), but it still will. Working to fight anything Trump does that you think is wrong makes sense. That is a right, a privilege, and indeed, can be an obligation of citizenship. And that might have a real effect. But saying he's not president? I guess I just don't get the point. ETA: And isn't it tacitly condoning the asshats who went around for eight years saying Obama wasn't their president? Or those who would have said Clinton wasn't their president? How do we condemn them if we do the same thing when a candidate we don't like gets into office?
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Post by Amadan on Dec 20, 2016 11:10:41 GMT -5
That's your reality and you can passively accept it. That's not my reality and I actively reject yours. Okay. Let us know what it's like in your reality where Trump is not the president and does not have the powers of that office.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 20, 2016 12:37:34 GMT -5
Alas, my response was just swallowed in the ether when I went back to add a point. Either CG Admin hates me, or there was a blip somewhere.
And I gotta run. Will be back later.
For now -- we can agree to disagree.
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Post by Rolling Thunder on Dec 20, 2016 14:15:12 GMT -5
Great link. My girlfriend will enjoy that information.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 20, 2016 15:25:51 GMT -5
Thank, Ohio -- I will read it (though I probably won't get a chance tonight).
To be clear -- I absolutely do not advocate simply shrugging and allowing bad things to happen. Certainly I'll act when I think it's warranted. Indeed, I've already written some letters, including to a former law school classmates who is likely to be closely connected with the Trump administration.
By the way, has anyone else had the disappearing post thing happen? I had posted, went in to add a thought, but when I reposted, my text was gone (both edit and original text). I assume it is a pro-board glitch and not Rob playing with my head! I'm quite certain I didn't accidentally press delete, and I wasn't on my phone, so it wasn't one of my fat thumb issues.
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Post by Optimus on Dec 20, 2016 16:38:04 GMT -5
The results of this election, and the responses to it from both sides, is just more evidence of the old line, "Democrats fall in love. Republicans fall in line."
Even with a horrible candidate, Republicans still unified behind the party. Dems hardly ever do that. A lot of democrats love to talk big game about "change," but they rarely get off their asses to actually vote to ensure or enact that change. A lot of them voted for Obama in 08 and 12, but they then disappear in midterm elections, like 2010, which allowed republicans to gerrymander districts so grotesquely that it'll probably be a decade before Dems get congressional power back (unrelated to the Census). Basically, millions of Democrats, particularly in swing states, sat on their butts during this election. Whether that was because they fell for the propaganda against Hillary or were sour about Bernie losing, or some other reason, it doesn't matter. Voter laziness caused this.
But, no matter why they did it, the result is tragically the same. It's only now when the election (unfortunately) didn't go their way, now that it's practically too late, that many of them are finally fired back up and wanting to do something about it.
If it were just this election, then I would be marveling at the madness of this statistical fluke. But, it's pretty much every election other than Obama's two wins. Dems didn't show up in 2010, and the Repubs took over Congress. They didn't show up again in 2014, which helped Repubs gain even more power. They then didn't show up during this election, even though polls showed that the majority of democratic voters favored Hillary.
That downward trend has not happened with Republicans. Roughly the same number voted for Trump as voted for Romney and voted for W Bush both times (within 2 or 3 million voters). They had the worst candidate in modern history, and they still showed up to support their party. Even with all their in-fighting, when it comes to election day, they STFU and go vote for party unity. A lot of Dems get "apathetic" (to put it mildly) when things don't go exactly their way, throw themselves in the floor and pitch a toddler tantrum, and stay home. That's not how adults should act. Republicans might have voted for a horrible person, but they at least put their grown-up-pants on and vote.
I'm glad that those staffers put out the Indivisible document. I hope that it gets a bunch of the lazy brat portion of the Dem party off of their asses and helps galvanize them into a cohesive group actively working for change. But, based on past behavior, my hope seems more like a pipe dream.
Bottom line is that, despite the Republican party's woeful deficiencies on social policy, they function better as a party (in terms of voting) than the Dems because Republicans often focus on tactics whereas Democrats often focus on tantrums.
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Post by Amadan on Dec 21, 2016 16:30:12 GMT -5
I've enjoyed my president. Hope you enjoy yours. But I kinda doubt it. I doubt it too. But he's still going to be president.
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Post by Optimus on Dec 21, 2016 16:49:36 GMT -5
Yes, if you just ignore the word, "my," it totally changes reality. Who knew that the denialism of semantic gymnastics would make problems just magically go away? I mean, as long as a person *feels* better, that's all that matters.
Imagine there's no Trump. It's easy if you try...
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Post by Vince524 on Dec 21, 2016 17:00:10 GMT -5
I don't feel like Trump is my president, but he will be the president of the united states. It's surreal, a little horrifying and something out of a really bad tv show, but it is what it is.
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Post by Amadan on Dec 21, 2016 17:14:44 GMT -5
I understand clicking your heels together, or clapping really hard, can also make Trump #NotYourPresident. Just don't say his name three times in front of a mirror.
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Post by Rolling Thunder on Dec 21, 2016 17:25:19 GMT -5
*scratches Chia Trump for Ohio off Christmas gift list*
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Post by CG Admin on Dec 21, 2016 17:30:00 GMT -5
Points made, no?
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