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Post by Deleted on Jan 21, 2017 19:36:18 GMT -5
We don't always have parties, but when we do, we solve world problems. You and I and a couple bottles of wine -- I think we'd change some things right away.
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Post by robeiae on Jan 21, 2017 19:48:00 GMT -5
I think the marching, the hats, and everything else would have a much bigger impact if it was in response to actual decisions and policies taken or enacted by Trump.
As it is now, the whole thing isn't moving to me in the least, because there's a big chunk of "sour grapes-ness" at work, imo. It's no different than the posts on Facebook people keep putting up, expressing how they don't respect the Presidency anymore, or how Trump isn't legitimate, or isn't their President. Really, the article Don linked to in his thread on reasons libertarians need to be worried about Trump is the same sort of thing, as well. Christ, wait til he does something significant as President. THEN come down on him.
Sure, it's sometimes important to "do something," but in general it needs to be a counter to something tangible.
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Post by celawson on Jan 21, 2017 19:51:52 GMT -5
I think the marching, the hats, and everything else would have a much bigger impact if it was in response to actual decisions and policies taken or enacted by Trump. As it is now, the whole thing isn't moving to me in the least, because there's a big chunk of "sour grapes-ness" at work, imo. It's no different than the posts on Facebook people keep putting up, expressing how they don't respect the Presidency anymore, or how Trump isn't legitimate, or isn't their President. Really, the article Don linked to in his thread on reasons libertarians need to be worried about Trump is the same sort of thing, as well. Christ, wait til he does something significant as President. THEN come down on him. Sure, it's sometimes important to "do something," but in general it needs to be a counter to something tangible. This, totally. I heard the national head and the California head of the women's march interviewed on the radio, and neither of them could articulate actual policy proposals or policies that would harm women that Trump would be enacting. They sounded sort of stupid on air, actually - and they were given commercial breaks to think about their answers and they still couldn't answer. I will try to find that clip.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 21, 2017 19:57:37 GMT -5
There's defunding Planned Parenthood, for one.
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Post by Christine on Jan 21, 2017 19:58:05 GMT -5
Men are marching too, btw. I'd wager at least some of them are wearing the hats. Likely. But they are not men who needed convincing on these issues. The fact that they are marching (women and men) will make some impact. This march had a big impact on cities everywhere today, just by virtue of their impressive size. The fact some were wearing silly hats added nothing. Those wearing silly hats and not marching? No impact. I have to add -- I despise the word "pussy" so much. I swear a blue streak, as you know, but never will I use that word (or "cunt", either). I hope no one "reclaims" it around me; they will likely regret it. I don't like the word either, but I get the concept of "taking it back" as opposed to continuing to eschew it, under the circumstances. We don't always have parties, but when we do, we solve world problems. You and I and a couple bottles of wine -- I think we'd change some things right away. Quite so. I think the marching, the hats, and everything else would have a much bigger impact if it was in response to actual decisions and policies taken or enacted by Trump. As it is now, the whole thing isn't moving to me in the least, because there's a big chunk of "sour grapes-ness" at work, imo. It's no different than the posts on Facebook people keep putting up, expressing how they don't respect the Presidency anymore, or how Trump isn't legitimate, or isn't their President. Really, the article Don linked to in his thread on reasons libertarians need to be worried about Trump is the same sort of thing, as well. Christ, wait til he does something significant as President. THEN come down on him. Sure, it's sometimes important to "do something," but in general it needs to be a counter to something tangible. Ah yes, the "wait and see" approach. As though Trump's entire campaign, and his election, isn't sufficient cause for concern.
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Post by Rolling Thunder on Jan 21, 2017 19:58:25 GMT -5
My girlfriend helped coordinate the local bus trip. There were so many different sub-causes she said it was like herding rabid kittens.
I have to pick her up at the station in one hour. Those of you knowing a compassionate diety... pray for me.
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Post by robeiae on Jan 21, 2017 20:01:06 GMT -5
I never said don't be concerned. But protesting, marching, and the like are not the same thing as being concerned.
But hey, do your thing. Scream and yell bloody murder about the world ending because of Trump. I'm sure that will make a huge difference.
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Post by Christine on Jan 21, 2017 20:05:34 GMT -5
Protesting, marching, and the like are not the same thing as screaming and yelling bloody murder about the world ending, either.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 21, 2017 20:06:03 GMT -5
I think he has enough planned in his initial days that it's worth letting him know a buttload of people oppose him strongly enough to spend the day after inauguration day marching. He has no mandate for sweeping change.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 21, 2017 20:09:54 GMT -5
My girlfriend helped coordinate the local bus trip. There were so many different sub-causes she said it was like herding rabid kittens. I have to pick her up at the station in one hour. Those of you knowing a compassionate diety... pray for me. Meh, just pick up some wine on the way. You probably could both use it.
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Post by robeiae on Jan 21, 2017 20:15:31 GMT -5
I think he has enough planned in his initial days that it's worth letting him know a buttload of people oppose him. He has no mandate. This "mandate" stuff it a fantasy. There's no requirement for a mandate in the Constitution. It's not like Obama threw out his agenda after the 2010 midterms. Trump is President. He's going to have the same power as past Presidents. He's going to take some actions, make some EOs, sign some bills into law. When these things get close to happening or actually do happen and they cross lines for people, that is the time to make their voices heard, imo. Again, imo the current protesting and marching smells a lot more like sour grapes than it does anything else. And look, there is a part of me that wold love to see him fall on his face, to even get caught up in a scandal that leads to impeachment, because I think he's a grifter and untrustworthy (to put it mildly). But holy shit, he's been President for what, 32 hours? Most of that was spent dancing, glad-handing, and sleeping. People are going to run out of steam before the first week is over at this rate.
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Post by celawson on Jan 21, 2017 20:20:09 GMT -5
Ok, I made a mistake - the interview was with higher ups in the Illinois and Florida Womens March organizations. Here is the clip: www.stitcher.com/podcast/salem-radio/michael-medved-radio-show/e/medved-show-192017-h2-womens-march-on-washington-48763742If you skip to 8:20 you will hear the part I'm referring to. Planned Parenthood is addressed earlier on - you can listen at 4:50 and it gets into that. But the point of the conservative interviewer in response to the Planned Parenthood is maybe it would be better to take the $$$$ everyone is spending on this march, and give it to Planned Parenthood to make up for the funding deficit if Trump does succeed in stopping federal funding. Which I think is an excellent point - target a grassroots response to a specific policy or legislation in a more constructive manner. This does seem mainly like public pouting, sorry to say. I don't quite see the real world usefulness.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 21, 2017 20:26:31 GMT -5
I agree the mandate stuff is nonsense, though president after president crows about having one.
and yes, Trump has the same powers as every other president.
One thing I think is different, though -- the opposition to Trump -- as evidenced by this march, for one -- feels far more passionately about it, in far greater numbers than I can recall in my lifetime. I knew a lot of unhappy people after George W was elected, but nothing like this.
And I must say I'VE never felt like this about an incoming president. It goes way beyond party. I found this guy disturbing before he was a Republican, much less the Republican candidate. Now he downright scares me. I've lost sleep over it.
A lot of people feel that way. I don't they're going to run out of steam -- not unless Trump proves to be a very different animal than he's looking to be.
ETA:
I know a couple of women who marched today who never marched for anything in their lives. I think it's far more than sour grapes.
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Post by robeiae on Jan 21, 2017 20:47:46 GMT -5
Is it far more than sour grapes, or just really bad sour grapes? Look, I have friends who marched. My FB feed is full of their recounts of the day. I'm certainly not suggesting that they shouldn't have marched. It's their decision. If people feel strongly about...whatever...then fair enough. But that doesn't mean I have to be on board with it, that I have to accept that it's an effective move. Because I don't think it is (or rather was). I don't think Trump is listening right now, I don't think he's paying attention, apart from getting annoyed that "some people" are ruining his ascendancy party. So what's more important: doing something for the sake of doing something, or doing something that can actually have an impact?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 21, 2017 20:55:42 GMT -5
One need not choose between those two alternatives. Doing this does not prevent anyone from taking other actions
And while not much is going to penetrate Trump's ego, I am betting this show of opposition might make some impression on others -- e.g , in Congress. It is one way (maybe the only way) of showing, right up front, that gobs of people stand ready to protest, and won't meekly stand by for whatever they care to shove down our throats.
This isn't signing an online petition. It takes time and trouble to participate in something like this, and a buttload of people did so.
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