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Post by Deleted on May 24, 2017 16:59:52 GMT -5
He does! And he needs to work on his spelling! Sad.
(Alternatively, or better yet, in addition, he could stop tweeting.)
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Post by robeiae on May 24, 2017 17:10:18 GMT -5
Though I do think the bow thing was blown out of proportion as evidence that Obama WAS subservient. With that, I don't agree. Absolutely, it was blown way out of proportion, not unlike--if you recall--GWB holding hands with a Saudi royal on his visit there (which by the way is just a general custom and unrelated to protocols, per se.) But then, these are predictable responses from political adversaries, no? Which again is why Obama's bowing just wasn't smart politically (allowing that he chose to ignore protocol, which in fact I do not believe was the case, at all; imo, State probably failed to make the issue clear or Obama just kind of forgot himself in the moment (that does actually happen) and it was just a couple of simple mistakes.
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Post by Christine on May 24, 2017 17:18:11 GMT -5
I must also add that Cass' use of an exclamation point in the thread title (not to mention Don 's post invoking Dr. Seuss) was perfect. That's how it's done, goddamnit. Look at the guy's hair, even.
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Post by Deleted on May 24, 2017 17:27:32 GMT -5
Though I do think the bow thing was blown out of proportion as evidence that Obama WAS subservient. With that, I don't agree. Absolutely, it was blown way out of proportion, not unlike--if you recall--GWB holding hands with a Saudi royal on his visit there (which by the way is just a general custom and unrelated to protocols, per se.) But then, these are predictable responses from political adversaries, no? Which again is why Obama's bowing just wasn't smart politically (allowing that he chose to ignore protocol, which in fact I do not believe was the case, at all; imo, State probably failed to make the issue clear or Obama just kind of forgot himself in the moment (that does actually happen) and it was just a couple of simple mistakes. I agree. And I think we should all just be happy we have the Orb photos. I really don't know what the orb is about, and I have deliberately decided not to look it up, just because it it so much fun to make up stories in my head. Knowing about the actual ceremony or whatever is involved would ruin EVERYTHING. Mind you, I have no desire to criticize anyone with regard to it. I just want to pretend they are consulting the Wicked Witch of the West.
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Post by robeiae on May 24, 2017 17:32:50 GMT -5
Please. That ball lighting up is proof that those men all have green eyes and can hold the burning blade. Lo Pan will marry them all, then sacrifice Trump to appease the emperor...
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Post by Angie on May 24, 2017 18:41:40 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on May 24, 2017 18:50:53 GMT -5
Please. That ball lighting up is proof that those men all have green eyes and can hold the burning blade. Lo Pan will marry them all, then sacrifice Trump to appease the emperor... Ah, that explains the lack of flying monkeys. I can't wait to see Melania and Ivanka's oufits for the sacrificial ceremony!
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Post by Deleted on May 24, 2017 22:34:31 GMT -5
Movie poster for Godfather IV:
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Post by michaelw on May 24, 2017 22:49:04 GMT -5
^ LOL!
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Post by Amadan on May 25, 2017 8:52:56 GMT -5
I get that Obama's bow created a negative reaction. If that's the criticism, as rob noted - that it created a negative reaction, I can't disagree with that fact. But I disagree with the negative reaction itself. Here's a Snopes article that shows the clip of Obama bowing. BFD, imo. I thought it was respectful, culturally speaking, but not over the top; it was very quick as well. It's not like he prostrated himself and waited for permission to rise or some shit. I didn't see it as Obama showing weakness, which I think was the main problem for a lot of people. Either that, or any stick to beat Obama. I am sure Obama's intention was not to show weakness, and the Saudis themselves probably were not thinking "Bwahahaha, the American President is bowing down before us!" But, symbolic statements and gestures matter, especially where heads of state are involved. Did Obama's bow somehow damage the country? No, but it made him (and us) look foolish and unprepared. And on some level, it probably did feed the Saudis' unearned sense of entitlement to deference, whereas a President who declined to show such deference would have been making a firmer statement as to where we stood, both relative to Saudi Arabia and to the whole idea of monarchies.
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Post by Christine on May 25, 2017 15:15:46 GMT -5
I understand that symbolic statements and gestures matter to some people. I just disagree that this one should matter.
I've been thinking about this a lot actually, trying to figure out why it's all so eye-rolling for me personally. It might have to do with being raised with a lot of symbolic stuff that I later came to see as bullshit.
Additionally, I don't think it's the U.S. president's job to denounce monarchies. I think they should denounce mistreatment of citizens and promote civil rights (as Obama did), but a monarchy is not, in and of itself, representative of mistreatment.
As far as looking foolish, this is only the case if you buy into the belief that U.S. presidents must do X and not do Y, because symbolism. Or care too much about what other people think.
He didn't look foolish to me. And honest to dog, if Trump had done the same, I'd say the same.
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Post by robeiae on May 25, 2017 15:38:58 GMT -5
I understand that symbolic statements and gestures matter to some people. I just disagree that this one should matter. That goes the other way, too: it shouldn't matter to royalty. And yet it does in many cases. Even f they don't expect it from a US President (or at least say such is the case), they still expect it from their subjects. Why give them a pass on that? And if the symbolism was/is meaningless, why did Obama not bow to every head of state/queen/king/emperor that he met? That would at least be consistent and defensible on such grounds: "hey, I bow to everyone; it's my way."
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Post by Christine on May 25, 2017 15:54:54 GMT -5
I wonder if he did it as an initial show of respect in order to pave the way for more receptiveness to his subsequent criticisms regarding the appalling lack of civil rights in S.A.
Or maybe he secretly worships specific monarchs, but not all of them. *eyeroll*
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Post by robeiae on May 25, 2017 16:02:17 GMT -5
No one here is suggesting that he worships anyone, that I can see. In the same way that no one is suggesting that he's a "secret Muslim."
I chalked it up to a simple mistake. Is it somehow impossible for Obama to have made a mistake?
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Post by Christine on May 25, 2017 16:06:25 GMT -5
Two mistakes.
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