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Post by Deleted on Apr 10, 2017 22:03:33 GMT -5
You've probably seen the video of United airlines employees dragging a passenger out of his seat and down the aisle. (If not, video is in this article. www.cnn.com/videos/cnnmoney/2017/04/10/united-airlines-passenger-dragged-off-flight-orig.cnn Keep in mind -- the dude had a legitimate ticket he, like, paid for. He also apparently is a doctor who told them he had patients with appointments the next morning and had to be on the flight.) Yeah. I know about overbooking. I fly a lot. But I can tell you, I won't fly United again unless I have no other choice. Was wondering whether any of you felt the same. ETA: It's bad enough we get mauled by the TSA... |
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Post by Don on Apr 10, 2017 22:25:41 GMT -5
This is one of those cases where I like a post because I agree and it's well-written.  Oh, and I think you forgot the link. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 10, 2017 22:31:37 GMT -5
oops! just added it.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 10, 2017 22:35:44 GMT -5
here's their apology on Twitter, by the way:  Yeah. That was some "re-accommodating" there, sporto. ETA: I mean, did Mr. Munoz actually watch the video? It's like he's apologizing for some other, much more minor incident. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 11, 2017 0:35:35 GMT -5
The passenger they dragged down the aisle and gave a bloody lip to is 69 years old.
The seats? They were wanted for four United employees who otherwise would have to be inconvenienced by driving five hours to another airport.
It's true that they can decline to board you if they "overbook." But once you are boarded and seated...Yeah, I think that's something else. And explain again why the United employee getting to his or her job is more important than this paying passenger getting to his? And even if it were, WTF -- you beat a 68 year old customer and drag him down the aisle?
I rarely say this, but I hope this guy sues the living fuck out of everyone involved, and wins. United's half-assed apology actually makes it worse, IMO.
Really, truly, I will go way out of my way to never fly with them again. I don't think I often board the outrage express, but I'm on it now.
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Post by michaelw on Apr 11, 2017 0:47:29 GMT -5
That was pretty messed up. But on a more lighthearted note, this incident reminds me of that time a guy's guitar got broken on a United flight and the guy wrote a song about it: www.youtube.com/watch?v=5YGc4zOqozo |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 11, 2017 1:17:19 GMT -5
Comment by another passenger on the plane:
/photo/1
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Post by Don on Apr 11, 2017 4:49:24 GMT -5
There's so much wrong here, from the fraudulent practice of overbooking to the initiation of violence against a man who was simply attempting to consume a service already bought and paid for.
Travel is more time-sensitive than, perhaps, any other commodity. A contract to travel from point A to point B is worthless to one party if timely execution of the contract is not an enforceable component of that contract, with penalties attached. If the law fails to deliver justice, just perhaps one should consider that the law is unjust.
At least the thug administering the beating has been suspended until the heat dies down.
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Post by robeiae on Apr 11, 2017 8:33:16 GMT -5
Correction: the guys who dragged him off of the plane were not United employees. They worked for the Chicago Aviation Department. I think this all pretty outrageous, to be sure. Passengers with tickets who are already seated can't be forced to deplane without cause, or at least this shouldn't be possible. United couldn't find a fourth volunteer, tough shit. And I'm sure this guy has a monster civil case now against United, as he should. That said...I admit I don't know exactly how any of this works, but if United called airport security--and they obviously did--I'm assuming they told airport security that the captain had ordered a passenger off of the plane and the passenger refused to leave. I have a hunch security probably had to physically remove him, that this is what they are told do when passengers refuse to get off of a plane, otherwise planes can't take off, flights are delayed, and so forth. They have no authority to resolve ticketing disputes. If a plane's captain says someone has to get off, then they have to get off. When airport security shows up, you take names, pics, or whatever you can and you get off of the plane, imo. United was 100% wrong here, imo. They shouldn't be allowed to do this. Ad the guy did absolutely nothing wrong. Still, I'm not sure I see the net benefit of resisting here. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 11, 2017 8:42:43 GMT -5
The guy said he had patients he needed to see.
I can think of a couple instances where I would have certainly resisted that hard to get off the plane -- when my dad was spiraling downhill, for example, and every hour mattered.
Actually, if I'd been on the plane, even if I'd been another passenger, I'd have been resisting -- only I'd have been shouting "I'm a lawyer," and reading aloud from their contract of carriage -- which talks about being denied boarding, not being dragged off once you're on and seated -- to make room for a fucking airline employee, no less. Fuck that.
I am so pissed off just sitting here that I can't even imagine how I would have felt had I seen that poor guy manhandled in person.
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Post by robeiae on Apr 11, 2017 9:02:37 GMT -5
I agree, United is/was completely in the wrong. But you know, they're not "more wrong" because the guy said he was a doctor. They'd be every bit as wrong if the guy was a dishwasher. But really, I'm just noting that I think airport security probably didn't have a choice. Really, they should be pissed at United, as well, for putting their employees in such a position. I might be wrong on this, as I don't specifically know what the requirements are in this regard, but as I said, I think that if the captain of a plane orders someone off the plane, there's no appeal in the moment. Is this the relevant statute? www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/14/91.3Here's some analysis: www.aerolegalservices.com/Articles/Pilot%20In%20Command.shtmlBy my reading, the captain of this flight is in deep, deep shit here. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 11, 2017 9:15:23 GMT -5
I agree that whether the guy was a dishwasher or a doctor, this was wrong on United's part.
But as far as the guy's motive for fighting to stay, his patients might provide a powerful motive. Ditto on parents returning to their kids, my trying to get to my dying father. There are times when $800 and a flight the next day doesn't cut it. You have to get there. (To note: if you are a dishwasher, $800 is more than you would have made in your lost shift, and you probably wouldn't lose your job if you called and explained what happened.)
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Post by robeiae on Apr 11, 2017 9:25:06 GMT -5
Legally though, United can bump people, right? There's nothing one can do about that in the moment. Fighting to stay is pointless in that respect. The law was not on his side.
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Post by robeiae on Apr 11, 2017 9:32:53 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Apr 11, 2017 9:38:31 GMT -5
Legally though, United can bump people, right? There's nothing one can do about that in the moment. Fighting to stay is pointless in that respect. The law was not on his side. Legally, under the contract of carriage (which is what they rely on for the right to boot you), they can deny you boarding if they overbook. They can kick you off the plane if you misbehave, if there's an emergency, safety issue, etc. But the contract of carriage says squat about booting passengers who are already boarded, in their seats, and behaving, because of overbooking. I haven't done any legal research to see if there are cases discussing this, but off the top of my head, looking at the contract of carriage, I don't think they had a legal right to boot him, no. also -- no emergency here. The four United employees who too the seats could have driven. ETA: Heh. I looked at the contract of carriage yesterday and came to that conclusion. Just now I did a google search to see if there was any discussion on that point. A professor of public interest law agrees with me. lawnewz.com/high-profile/united-cites-wrong-rule-for-illegally-de-boarding-passenger/I think United is in deep, deep doo-doo, in so many ways. Good. |
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